Re: eer

From: Bob Myers (nospamplease_at_address.invalid)
Date: 08/30/04 

Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 22:50:37 GMT

"CWatters" <colin.watters@pandoraBOX.be> wrote in message
news:dmMYc.231236$2U7.11904044@phobos.telenet-ops.be...
> I saw a recent article in Scientific American (or was it New Scientist?)
> about hydrogen. If I remember correctly it discussed hydrogen in the
context
> of our total need for energy and how to use and transport that energy
> efficiently. I believe they concluded that if we manage to figure out how
to
> make a lot of hydrogen cleanly then the best use for it is not in cars. It
> would be better to use it for local power generation and home heating -
and
> use the oil saved in our cars. I was a bit surprised but there you are.

Not surprising; hydrogen is difficult stuff to distribute,
deliver, and store, and so not well suited to being placed
in relatively small quantities, in a very large number of
individual devices, operated by "regular people."

> > It is simply not yet practical to produce a pure EV, battery
> > powered, with acceptable range to compete with gas-powered
> > IC vehicles.
>
> 200+ miles is very acceptable for second cars use.

Yes, but as I said - the device you pointed to really
doesn't compete with what most people mean by "car."
It's more of a competitor to a motorcyle or a scooter -
the only real advantage it has over either of those is that
of being enclosed. It has virtually no cargo space as far
as I could see, and certainly isn't something that you'd
want to take out on a major highway; in short, it's something
that one or two people might use for short urban runs,
a "getting to work and back" sort of vehicle.

> > The hybrids can actually better the purely-IC vehicles
> > already, and can be produced at a reasonable cost, so that's
> > what we're seeing now.
>
> I believe I read the Jester cost only £6000 to make one off.

Yes, but again compare that to a truly comparable
vehicle - say, a motorcycle in the 250-500 cc class.

> You mean something as quick as "unplugging" the battery and fitting a new
> one? Batteries do wear out so it's likely that battery packs will be
rented
> items anyway.

You're talking about removing and replacing something
that will likely weigh a fair fraction of a thousand pounds, if not
more - and will also, just to complicate things, likely have a
significant (dangerous) amount of residual charge at the time
it's being replaced. I fail to see how that will compare to the
convenience of simply driving up and sticking a nozzle (or
even a power cable) into the appropriate receptacle on the
vehicle, loading up on the energy needed, and driving off.
The latter is something that just about everyone can do right
now, as in self-service gas stations.

Further, in the "remove and replace" scenario, the "gas
station" (battery station?) will have to have a fair number of
fully-charged batteries on hand, ready to go, and some
system for delivering those to the vehicles in a timely
manner (not to mention the problem of testing and recharging
the spent batteries coming in - and the slower THAT
goes, the more charged batteries will have to be kept on
hand). Besides being a serious change to the existing
infrastructure, there are also safety and cost-of-inventory
issues likely to come up here. It's going to be hard to beat
the "dig a big hole and stick a tank in it" model for the
storage of gasoline.

> > That would appear to be a dual-seat vehicle with extremely
> > limited cargo space - and there's no mention of what running
> > various accessories (the headlights, heating or air conditioning,
> > etc.) would do to the range.
>
> Oh I agree it's not an SUV but it's a heck of a lot better than the car
> companies seem to manage with their all electric cars - it just seems like
> they ain't really trying.

Like what? The "all-electrics" I've seen from the major
manufacturers have all been attempts at created reasonably
competitive vehicles, not glorified golf carts.

What's so bad about a hybrid electric, anyway? It's certainly
going to be FAR more efficient than current IC vehicles, can
be made in a range of competitive types/sizes already, and fits
the existing infrastructure. In addition, a small, relatively constant-
speed gasoline engine is a lot easier to make efficient AND
clean than one that's charged with being the direct drive power
for the wheels. A hybrid layout in which the electric motors
supply most or all of the actual driving power would also be
much more readily adaptable to alternate (although still chemical)
fuels.

Bob M.

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