Re: Latest News

From: Tom Seim (soar2morrow_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 11/24/04 

Date: 23 Nov 2004 21:07:24 -0800

> > Is your government elected or appointed?
> --------------------
> Let's pretend you have a mind.

Testy, are we?

> What does Democratic Majority mean everywhere in my writings?

I have NO IDEA!

>
>
> > of all land except residential.
> > > Everyone is entitled to own their home and compound. No sale of
> > > homes, only trade straight across through the aegis of the State
> > > if one desires to relocate.
> > >
> > > No owning corporate factories or any industrial equipment except
> > > what you can pursue on your residential compound. No owning stocks
> > > or bonds, no savable money, all exchange is in terms of labor hours
> >
> > So you are going to dismantle the monetary system.
> ---------------------------
> Hmmmm, you're certainly dense, aren't you?

The sign of a shallow mind: no response, then call me a name.

>
>
> > > rendered to the State for basic commodities and consumer items.
> > > All grown and made products are rendered to the State for their
> > > agreed labor hours credit amortized over the whole of each product.
> > >
> > > If it takes a total of 300 labor hours to make 3000 widgets from
> > > materials mined or harvested to parts composing it, to the final
> > > assemblage, then each costs a tenth of an hour. Unless crippled,
> > > veryone is required to work the democratically agreed minimum hours
> > > to meet basic needs or else they don't eat and it is illegal to even
> > > feed them.
> >
> > From each according to their abilities, to each according to their
> > needs.
> ------------------------------
> Nope. Read it again.
> You're regugitating your brainwashing from high school.

Better do a spell check.

>
>
> > > If they want more they sign up for more labor hours over their
> > > minimum, with which to buy consumer items. The only wealth that
> > > would even be possible is in personal property. Used items can be
> > > freely traded at weekly local flea markets.
> > >
> > > The State mandates that repair parts be available indefinitely for
> > > anything at cost.
> >
> > How are you going to set costs without a monetary system?
> ----------------------------
> Every product has a costs assessment in labor hours following it,
> from wells, mines and farms to factories right up to delivery as
> a product, and from that the price of each item in labor hours
> is amortized.

Like I said, you've eliminated the monetary system.

>
>
> > Who pays to maintain an inventory of spare?
> ------------------------------
> Who does now? We do. Now figure out how that can be done my way.
> How stupid are you? Orders for spares stock are pre-ordered for
> products by the repair facilities as their normal stock of supplies,
> just as any factory does.

Shame, shame. More name calling- typical of dogmatics. Without an
economic incentive, nobody is going to maintain ANY kind of an
inventory.

>
>
> > How do you account for the inevitable
> > loses incurred on providing spares "at cost"?
> ------------------------------------
> Simple, you study that phenomenon and justify a slightly higher price
> in labor hours of those goods because of it, represented by each
> product item's price by division of its costs for the whole lot.
>
> The State gains its costs for medical and care of the infirm in a
> similar way, by costing each person an equal minimum labor hour
> quota they must work to receive food, power, telecom, gas, recycle,
> and water. This "tax" on things is price-inherent, not seen explicitly
> for any one item.

This is your "new" monetary system - trading of labor hours. People
will have a disincentive to pursue higher education because their
labor is valued equally to unskilled labor.

>
>
> > If you can make something the rest of us want on
> > > your compound then you can petition to work at home, and be paid for
> > > supplies and tools as well, but otherewise you work at a publically
> > > owned factory or farm.
> > >
> > > If you want something and can find enough other people who do you
> > > can get the State to assign labor credit to anyone who wants to make
> > > that item at an agreed exchange rate based on how long other skilled
> > > workers in similar fields agree it would cost in hours of labor.
> >
> > So the State decides what will be produced.
> --------------------------------
> No, each person both orders things from the Catalog, and adds items

Catalog, with a capital "C". Sounds like something passed down from
the "State".

> to it by submitting requests online in a kind of eco-political eBay
> for people to organize who want some new kind of product, they present
> it to everyone, and they ask that orders for such a product by collected
> and that these orders become standing work-orders for that
> product to be produced, then people who want more work can offer to
> manufacture it at any factory with suitable space and tools, or they
> can ask that a new factory be built for it and submit evidence that
> it would be well-used. If a hobby group wants certain specialty items
> produced, it simply submits its orders to the local Committee of the
> People that meets several times a week. If approved, they compete for

Who "approves" what?

> any remaining materials and factory space, or they are requested to
> pursue its manufacture as a hobby or avocation in their home compounds
> for a bit longer till there is more demand. If they can show demand
> and ability and get labor hour quotes approved those who manufacture
> them, even on a small scale, can be paid labor hours to do so. If
> they can simply show orders and provide an acceptable quote for labor
> then they can be paid labor hours and they sell the product to the
> State Catalog for sale.
>
>
> > > Everything of this sort is decided locally at the Society meeting
> > > twice a week by whomever shows up to do it. People are lenient
> > > with each other because they want support for their own desires
> > > as well.
> > >
> > > You order things before they are produced, and they aren't produced
> > > for your order unless you order them.
> >
> > So mass production is gone. And, along with it, low-priced goods.
> -------------
> Not at all, we simply make things in huge lots when an order for that
> many accumulates, unless the People vote it a critical commodity.
>
>
> > Products will be hand made at very high cost. Take you average car.
> > How can you organize a supply chain when your "vendors" have no idea
> > what quantities you will be ordering? And when you do order, the
> > vendors will have to supply the parts at cost.
> ------------------------------------------
> In reality everything is done "at cost", profit is merely the rich
> stealing a portion of the wage of the laborers and then partially
> inflating the exchange medium without fully correcting for that.
> Now that there are no rich to do so, cost is all that anything
> requires. Investment is only done by the People as the State.

Profit is the reward for taking a risk, such as making a product that
nobody wants. Take away the reward, profit, and nobody will take the
risk, i.e. no products. And you don't have to be "rich" to do this -
small businesspeople do it every day.

>
>
> > > If we all decide we have enough
> > > stuff for a month or two, we go home and pursue our hobbies after our
> > > minimum hour jobs until enough people want new things. They literally
> > > arrange with others who ALSO want more "stuff" to make it for one
> > > another, via the computerized ordering system
> >
> > Forget about computers - this is an extremely heavily capitalized
> > industry that will be vaporized by your system.
> ----------------------------------------
> Nonsense. No "capital" from "rich" is required. The People's State
> alots extra labor to begin new endeavors or tool-up for a new run.
> This is done in factories all the time.
>
> That is actually what is happening anyway, it is simply disguised
> as the "rich" funding new endeavors by their stolen wealth and by
> their greed dictating what the society will next produce.

Consumers dictate what will be produced - except in your personal
hell.

>
>
> > > between factories that
> > > records all orders for manufacture and all labor hour credit. High
> > > ticket items can be partly paid in advance by labor and partly by
> > > promised future labor, time payment out of your wage to save storage
> > > costs. If you don't work the hours, you forfeit the item till you
> > > do.
> > >
> > > All this can be done quite locally in terms of a govt of perhaps
> > > only 5000 people either at public meetings or over the Net. Larger
> > > governance are done via the Net or by study committees that report
> > > back to everyone for grassroots approval.
> > >
> > > -Steve
> >
> > What size population are you talking about? It takes 5000 people just
> > to issue Social Security checks when all steps in the process are
> > considered.
> --------------------------------------------
> But not in one town or city. Nor do we need any such without "money".
> It is totally scalable.
>
> -Steve

GOOD LUCK! You will be asking everybody with savings to give those
savings up, hardly a winning strategy. But, then again, you don't
REALLY have any expectations of winning.

Relevant Pages

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    ... >> So you are going to dismantle the monetary system. ... > Every product has a costs assessment in labor hours following it, ... > just as any factory does. ...
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