Hydrogen cars (was Na + H2O2 (50%) -> H2?)

From: MH (mh_at_spam.no)
Date: 07/20/04 

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 14:41:42 +0300

One seemingly too much neglected problem with small consumer vehicles with
hydrogen engines is really the problem with H2 storage; Cryogenic storage is
not a real option (either you drive a lot or let the hydrogen boil into air-
I suppose that a real tank in a real car would boil out within a week as
best) or then you use high pressure bottles, whose capacity/weight ratio
wouldn't be very impressive. Both are dangerous in crash situations; Leaking
liquid hydrogen freezes everything nearby and/or is a fire hazard (at least
some special material maintaining its ductility in very low temperatures to
resist rupture should be used in the tank and its weldings), compressed gas
bottles are prone to explode in fires or collisions making rescue workers'
days bad.

I believe that instead of using raw hydrogen, the cars of future will be
burning different alcohols- they are easy to produce even from hydrogen,
handle and store. Further, they can be used in most normal combustion
engines normally burning gasoline after some adjusting.

Regards, Matti

"G. R. L. Cowan" <gcowan@eagle.ca> kirjoitti viestissä
news:40FCA375.F4BB88E4@eagle.ca...
> David Harper wrote:
> >
> > Dan Bloomquist <EXTRApublic20@lakeweb.com> wrote in message
news:<40FC2260.9080707@lakeweb.com>...
> >
> > How would using hydrogen as a fuel "defy" nature? Afterwards, you
> > might want to inform NASA that their shuttle doesn't work.
>
> If he does, it might not be their first clue ...
>
> Interestingly, in the first few miles of each of its flights,
> when it was flying, more than half the Shuttle's power
> came from aluminum combustion. You might be interested in
> the following thought experiment:
>
>
> (1) Take a serious hydrogen car such as the recent BMW 750.
> Like every such car it has a combustion motor
> and a cryogenic liquid hydrogen tank.
> Remove most of this tank's guts -- the vacuum
> superinsulation, the heater, the 140-L inner tank.
> Keep only the 175-L outer steel shell;
> if you want, change it to aluminum.
>
> (2) Put 63 litres of aluminum pellets into it.
>
> (3) Replace -- this is a difficult step, but it's all the
> same price to think about -- the hydrogen burner motor
> with an aluminum-burning one.
>
> As proof that such motors can exist, I offer the
> space shuttle's SRBs. When the shuttle was flying,
> the first 10 miles or so of every flight was
> principally aluminum combustion-powered.
>
> (4) Run the vehicle until all the aluminum has burned.
> Pressed into small briquettes, the resulting oxide
> should fill up about 96 litres of space, so it can
> go back in the tank. In fact, it can have its own
> compartment there.
>
> (5) Note how far you drove: well over a thousand km,
> over three times as far as is possible using the
> same space for hydrogen.
>
>
> --- Graham Cowan
> http://www.eagle.ca/~gcowan/Paper_for_11th_CHC.doc --
> How individual mobility gains nuclear cachet.
> Link if you want it to happen

Relevant Pages

  • Hydrogen cars (was Na + H2O2 (50%) -> H2?)
    ... hydrogen engines is really the problem with H2 storage; Cryogenic storage is ... I suppose that a real tank in a real car would boil out within a week as ... > came from aluminum combustion. ... > if you want, change it to aluminum. ...
    (sci.energy.hydrogen)
  • Hydrogen cars (was Na + H2O2 (50%) -> H2?)
    ... hydrogen engines is really the problem with H2 storage; Cryogenic storage is ... I suppose that a real tank in a real car would boil out within a week as ... > came from aluminum combustion. ... > if you want, change it to aluminum. ...
    (sci.energy)
  • Re: Na + H2O2 (50%) -> H2?
    ... >> You have shown examples where individuals lack an understanding of the ... came from aluminum combustion. ... superinsulation, the heater, the 140-L inner tank. ... if you want, change it to aluminum. ...
    (sci.electronics.repair)
  • Re: Na + H2O2 (50%) -> H2?
    ... >> You have shown examples where individuals lack an understanding of the ... came from aluminum combustion. ... superinsulation, the heater, the 140-L inner tank. ... if you want, change it to aluminum. ...
    (sci.energy)
  • Re: Na + H2O2 (50%) -> H2?
    ... >> You have shown examples where individuals lack an understanding of the ... came from aluminum combustion. ... superinsulation, the heater, the 140-L inner tank. ... if you want, change it to aluminum. ...
    (sci.energy.hydrogen)