Re: Onkyo TX 3000 questions

>if I can't fix it simply because I personally can't get to the >bottom of
>the problem - and no matter how good we think we are, it happens >to us all
>occasionally - then I don't feel that it is justified to charge the >owner
>for my lack of ability in his particular case.


That's why we charge it as in initial check-out fee. The idea is that the
checkout fee applies to all units equally and covers fixed and other
operating costs of the shop - Yellow Pages ad, utilities, etc. This is
explained up front and the large majority of customers are OK with it, so
long as it applies to a completed repair. Since we went to this policy
several years ago, our financial standing has improved considerably.

The checkout fee is only refunded on rare occasions. I will write the refund
check to avoid an argument, even if the customer is being unreasonable,
since I feel any time spent arguing is too valuable, and can be better spent
elsewhere, i.e. fixing the next piece o' crap on the bench.


Mark Z.

*********************************************************

"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:P2zsf.26524$zt1.22762@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> "Mark D. Zacharias" <spammenot@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:P6wsf.6359$oW.3893@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> "Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:c4ksf.18361$q4.17653@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>> "Waylon" <WinnigisGood@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>> news:60e3r1htlr3mq9rhcrqfdvl23gvqh73bt7@xxxxxxxxxx
>>>> My Onkyo TX 3000 stereo receiver went on the blink and I've had it in a
>>>> local
>>>> repair shop for the past 3 months. The problem with the device is this.
>>>> When you
>>>> push the on/off switch, nothing happens. Usually, once you turn it on,
>>>> it will
>>>> be about a 2 or 3 second delay, you will hear a click sound and it
>>>> powers up.
>>>> Well, that don't happen. Al the lights comes on, but that click sound
>>>> never
>>>> materializes and NO SOUND. Anybody go a clue and is 3 months typically
>>>> TOO Long
>>>> for a shop to take to repair???
>>>
>>> I would suspect that the person who landed the job of looking at it, has
>>> ' lost his way ' a bit on it. It happens to us all sometimes, and it's
>>> usually the slightly more obscure makes of this type of high end
>>> equipment, that it happens on.
>>>
>>> Basically, the failure of the unit to come on with the normal relay
>>> click, means that the system control micro, is detecting some kind of
>>> fault condition. This is what is being looked for by the system control
>>> during that few seconds between you hitting the switch, and the relay
>>> closing to complete the power up sequence. Often, it will be an output
>>> stage problem, but this is where the fun and games can start. This kind
>>> of problem can literally soak up hours of bench time, particularly if
>>> the unit has discrete component output stages, and you don't have a
>>> schematic.
>>>
>>> Having realised that you have spent half a day, and got nowhere, the
>>> tendency is to cast it aside to get on with some jobs that will put food
>>> on the table. You always promise yourself that you will look at it again
>>> on Friday when you're less stressed, and in the meantime, will try to
>>> obtain a service manual. Unfortunately, it never works like that, and
>>> this week turns into next week, and then next month until it becomes an
>>> embarrassment, and you start to dread the owner ringing up about it. Any
>>> other professionals reading this will know exactly what I'm talking
>>> about. I'm willing to bet that every one of us has been there at some
>>> time ...
>>>
>>> I would suggest that you approach the shop where it is, and ask nicely
>>> what the problem is. Suggest to them that if they are having too much of
>>> a problem with it, that they just put it back together, and let you have
>>> it back, as three months is not acceptable. If it's not fixed just
>>> because they can't fix it, they shouldn't charge you anything. Most of
>>> us who are reputable, work on a no fix no charge basis.
>>>
>>> If the scenario is as I've described, they will probably appreciate your
>>> direct approach and understanding. Providing that the person looking at
>>> it is not a nonno, then as a fellow engineer, I have sympathy with him.
>>>
>>> Arfa
>>>
>>
>> I'm pretty sure this model is a bit old to have a
>> microprocessor-controlled protection circuit. More likely just an analog
>> DC detect / overcurrent detect circuit.
>>
>> As far as "no fix no charge" is concerned, in my shop the initial
>> check-out fee is non-refundable except in extraordinary circumstances.
>> Three months time unable to fix might not qualify, but three months
>> getting a runaround would, in my opinion.
>>
>> Mark Z.
>>
>
> Yeah, I know what you're saying, Mark. It's always a difficult one as to
> whether there should be a standard charge applied to a no-go repair. I
> tend to work along the lines that if it can't be fixed because there is no
> service info available, and I've spent time trying to work around that
> fact, then it is chargeable at the base examination rate. Likewise, if it
> can't be fixed because of lack of spares. But, except in some special
> circumstances, if I can't fix it simply because I personally can't get to
> the bottom of the problem - and no matter how good we think we are, it
> happens to us all occasionally - then I don't feel that it is justified to
> charge the owner for my lack of ability in his particular case. I'm
> probably too soft for my own good, but I always think that if the owner
> had taken it to my mate down the road, he would have been able to fix it.
> ( he probably wouldn't 'cause I'm better than him ( !! ) ) but still, the
> thought is always there.
>
> The trick is to realise early on when you are beat, and not to waste so
> much time, but none of us likes to admit defeat, and the answer is always
> just two more voltage checks away, isn't it ... ?
>
> And yes, you're probably right about the protect circuit. In fact now I
> come to think of it, I have a dim recollection of having one of these, or
> a similar vintage Onkyo, come across my bench some long time ago, with a
> similar problem. It turned out to be the delay cap on the protect IC ( one
> of those little 9 pin SIL things ) that was the problem. It had leaked,
> and the electrolyte had attacked the timing resistor that was nearby.
> Cleaning up and replacing those two items cured it.
>
> Arfa
>


.

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