Re: Using nuclear power to make renewables and a hydrogen economy cost effective
From: Ian St. John (istjohn_at_noemail.usa)
Date: 10/29/04
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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:17:51 -0400
Alex Terrell wrote:
> "Ian St. John" <istjohn@noemail.usa> wrote in message
> news:<ahpgd.22396$Qs6.1718730@news20.bellglobal.com>...
>
>>>
>>> So here's the difference - I see more "green" opportunities for
>>> producing electricty (wind, wave, tidal, photo-voltaic), than I do
>>> for producing hydrogen (bio diesel, thermal processes).
>>
>> So this is all about your limited viewpoint??
>
> No, it's about the view point of lots of individuals who contribute to
> this discussion.
No. It is you that is of the opinon that .. "I see more "green"
opportunities for producing electricty " I doubt that all of those other
individuals agree with your one sided logic and certainly do not form a
support group for your feeble arguments.
> Many individuals seem to know quite a lot. Others,
> like yourself, can't tolerate anyone expressing an opinion which
> doesn't agree with their "one issue crank" point of view.
Obviously, since it is you that has taken a 'dogmatic position', you should
look in the mirror if you want to see a crank.
>
> What I've done is try to see what we're disagreeing about. I repeat
> for your benefit: I see more "green" opportunities for producing
> electricty (wind, wave, tidal, photo-voltaic), than I do for producing
> hydrogen (bio diesel, thermal processes). You seem to believe the
> reverse.
No. I see all sorts of opportunities for all sorts of separate systems The
biggest problem with alternative energy will be all those separate systems.
What happens when you run your vehicle on celllulose ethanol and the only
pump in the 'one horse' hick town serves biodiesel? Fact is that flexibility
in fuel or energy systems will be the key ingredient to a sustainable future
unless you want to put all eggs in a different basket, such as hydrogen from
coal. Or in the case of your hobbyhorse, electricity.
>
> Is that correct?
No.
>>
>>> Electricty will be
>>> cheaper than hydrogen from non fossil sources, and it's much more
>>> useful for anything except heating.
>>
>> False. Electricity stored in batteries is VERY poor use of fuel and
>> highly inefficient. They have ALWAYS failed ot make the 'all
>> electric car'. Hydogen give a good balance of quick fueling,
>> efficiency and range. Well, so would alcohol, etc but..
>
> Firstly, I haven't mentioned batteries at this point.
False logic. You have to have batteries to store electricity. Super
capacitators cannot hold that level of electricity storage.
> But now you
> mention it; Power station fossil fuel to transmission to battery to
> motor; comes to a similar efficiency as fossil fuel to internal
> combustion engine.
Probably not. Smoke and mirrors. I would suggest that replacable zinc panels
( conversion of electircity to chemical energy ) followed by use of zinc/air
battery in vehicle would be the most convenient in terms of 'recharging' to
use electricity unless you can find a way to reverse a 'sodium borohydride
battery' to produce sodium borohydride solutions as an energy medium. Where
electricity ( probably erratically supplied ) is the main output of a green
energy source, the use of storage is mandated and conversion to chemical
energy suitable to reconversion to electicity is the obvious choice.
>>
>>> Ideally it would be nice to match demand and supply of both, to
>>> minimise convesion one way or the other.
>>
>> You may need to produce a certain amount of electricity to fully
>> generate the hydrogen (coal to hydrogen conversion with mineral
>> sequestration ) to get enough 'process heat' to balance the
>> thermodynamics.
>>
> You're digressing.
No. The issue was green energy development.
>>>
>>> Given this, we would want to do as much as possible with
>>> electricity, rather than hydrogen. Hence the merits of plug-in
>>> hybrids.
>>
>> Do you have another tune? You really are kind of boring.
>>
> A three year old would find calculus boring. It's way beyond them.
> They might say "can we play something else. You really are kind of
> boring"
I meant in a mindless sort of way. Repeating an assertion without a shred of
logic is boring even to the well educated. They look for some intriguing
ideas and you come up way short.
.
- Next message: Ian St. John: "Re: Using nuclear power to make renewables and a hydrogen economy cost effective"
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