Re: Using nuclear power to make renewables and a hydrogen economy cost effective

From: Don Lancaster (don_at_tinaja.com)
Date: 10/30/04 

Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 14:48:11 -0700

bogax wrote:
>
> Hatunen <hatuunen@cox.net> wrote in message news:<e045o01g3hismu7r2quhs3dpd9t23ujqb4@4ax.com>...
> > On 28 Oct 2004 21:54:18 -0700, henk@access1.net (bogax) wrote:
> >
> > >Hatunen <hatuunen@cox.net> wrote in message news:<tfi2o01kh13c4gd490alia1si0d2rjqe45@4ax.com>...
> > >
> > >> Get real. Have you ever seen a jojoba plant? First, they are
> > >> rather sparce plants that grow sparcely although it seems that
> > >> the oil, although costly, is of good quality for specialized
> > >> lubricating oils. Second, if you irrigate them they will die;
> > >> otherwise you could grow them in wet areas where you don't have
> > >> to irrigate.
> >
> > >heh
> > >
> > >This rather makes me wonder if you've ever seen a jojoba plant.
> > >You apparently have never seen them cultivated.
> > >
> > >(ok, neither have I :) but here's a picture)
> > >
> > >http://ag.arizona.edu/aes/mac/images/jojoba1.jpg
> >
> > Seeing them up close and personal is informative; there's a lot
> > less there than meets the eye.
> >
>
> My point is that they're not generally what I'd call sparse, and even
> if they were they needn't be.
>
> As for up close and personal there's one growing not 20 ft from me
> as I type this and it is not sparse (it is, however, growing next to
> my septic tank :)
>
> That picture looks representative of mature plants to me.
> (maybe they are sparse where you are? I don't know)
>
> > As to replecing crude oil, the accomapnying page says "This wax
> > is used as a natural base for a wide range of cosmetic products,
> > has heat-resistant lubricating properties, and is potentially
> > useful in the chemical industry." Not really a replacement for
> > crude.
> >
> > I can't seem to easily find a figure for oil produciton per acre.
> >
> > It does say at
> > http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/afcm/jojoba.html:
> >
>
> I couldn't reach that page just now, but if it's the one I think it is,
> it says somewhere there that seed production is <300 lbs / acre
> but can consistently be ~800 lbs / acre with selected cutivars
> (I'm paraphrasing from memory)
>
> I've generally seen oil percentages figures of 30-50% given so
> (using a median figure of 40%) that suggests 120-320 lbs of oil
> per acre.
>
> > "In 1978, the cost of establishing jojoba in the southwestern
> > U.S. (the first 3 years) was estimated to be $1,157/acre. Low
> > yields and frost damage have resulted in financial losses for
> > many farmers and investors. Successful long-term production of
> > jojoba depends on improved yield and a strong market. Industry is
> > typically hesitant to invest in new technology involving an
> > agriculturally produced resource until a steady and continued
> > supply of that resource can be demonstrated. The value of jojoba
> > oil as an alternative industrial oil with multiple applications
> > and as a replacement for non-renewable fossil petroleum has been
> > demonstrated."
> >
> > but
> > it doesn't say that replecement of fossil fuel actually makes
> > economic sense. It obviously is practical in replacing
> > spermaceti.
> >
>
> I wasn't trying to say anything about jojoba for fuel.
>
> However I would like to see some large scale experiments done
> to gauge the economics of biodiesel, and jojoba seems a reasonable
> candidate for land that would be marginal at best for most other crops
> (and not just oil crops) ie land that would not otherwise be used for
> agriculture.
>
> >
> > ************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) *************
> > * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
> > * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Again, there was a big jojoba scam came down in Arizona three decades
ago.
Especially in the Vicksburg Bouse greater metropolitan area.

The whole thing hinged on an outrageous price per pound for the oil.
Which promptly tanked as supply wildly exceeded demand.

If anything interesting in energy came out of this, it apparently did
not survive. 

-- 
Many thanks,
Don Lancaster
Synergetics   3860 West First Street  Box 809  Thatcher, AZ 85552
voice: (928)428-4073 email: don@tinaja.com   
Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

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