Re: hydrogen cyrogenic engine

From: Mike (niche_at_iinet.net.au)
Date: 11/16/04 

Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 13:43:34 +0800

Fred McGalliard wrote:

> "Mike" <niche@iinet.net.au> wrote in message
> news:4198FA0A.4CE1AADF@iinet.net.au...
> ...
> > What I am suggesting, which you shallowly cast aside by your feeble
> > attention to a mechanistic one dimensional issue of thermodynamics
>
> Don does not have his thermo down well enough, but that does not mean he is
> devoid of all understanding. Thermodynamics is the foundation stone of any
> chemical or mechanical system. Describe it in more detail and hopefully we
> can examine it and see what thermo really has to say about it.

I'm not suggesting throwing away thermodynamics, I am an engineer after
all and have passed my thermodynamics in first year ~`:o)

What I am suggesting is learning from the paradigm in nature but applying
modern computing techniques in respect of expert systems, AI and
genetic search algorithms to come up with an alternative and hopefully
more efficient process that already exists in nature.

> > The same principle by which nature has converted CO2 and water into
> > more complex molecules usable as fuel could be expanded
>
> All the existing plant CO2 conversions take high energy photochemical
> reactions up in the yellow somewhere as I recall, and hand off this energy
> to the secondary synthesis reactions. The thermo of this is that if you
> reject the heat as cold as you can, you get the most energy from your heat
> engine. If you reject heat at a bit higher temperature into some process
> that can use it in say fuel synthesis, you are forced to reduce the
> efficiency of the top engine. In some very real cases this double step
> process makes great sense, balancing cost and efficiency. It is not like
> magically found energy though, and thermo applies, even to the fuel cells
> where it is harder to identify the heat engine correctly. Do you have some
> synthesis process in mind? More specific than the above anyway?

What I have in mind is an expert system using (maybe) genetic search algorithms

primed with all known inorganic (and organic) equations so it can search for a
process that
uses the same energy inputs as occurs in nature to produce the required
outcome - some energy carrier comparable with oil but non-polluting or
lower polluting or carbon neutral etc etc

ie. Nature uses ambient heat, incident light and raw materials such as CO2,
water
and catalysts such as minerals.

What I suggest is devising a computing project which uses an expert system
which is primed with all known inorganic (and why not organic reactions, there
must be millions upon millions), run it with a genetic search based algorithm
which
would be an analogy for what nature has already done for billions of years
to come up with a process to move energy to a carrier outcome such as oil.
Much like nature has done by producing oil.

The advantage we have is, the ambient heat level can be higher, not enough
to run a mechanical heat engine but say waste heat from industrial prcoesses
that give rise of say boiling point water in concert with incident light, which

can also be concetrated through nice cheap reflectors.

ie. Let our computing resources, properly primed, search for the process
with a far better starting point than nature had to begin with...

At best it could be imagined that a carrier might turn up which is carbon
negative and least it could be one which is carbon neutral.

I'm not saying this is going to happen overnight, it might take ten years,
but it would be sensible, in fact logical, to use existing computing
resources for such a project and save stuffing around with hydrogen
unless the system shows its necessary...

Rgds

Mike

Relevant Pages

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    (sci.energy.hydrogen)