Re: Hydrogen Production Method Could Bolster Fuel Supplies

From: Alex Terrell (alexterrell_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 12/03/04 

Date: 3 Dec 2004 06:23:07 -0800

quasarstrider@yahoo.com.br (quasarstrider) wrote in message news:<14a48ff9.0412020849.49e13988@posting.google.com>...
> "Tom Simonds" <tsimonds@theworld.com> wrote in message news:<coj7n1$vcj$1@pcls4.std.com>...
> > I have no idea why anyone would want to use electricity to produce H2
> > for use as a motor car fuel. Seems crazy. Use electricity to make H2,
> > put it into a car just to convert it back into electricity. And lose >
> > 1/2 of your energy along the way. There are several workable schemes to
> > use elect. directly - skipping the H2 altogether.
> >
> > A light weight battery electric car today can be built that'll go 200(?)
> > miles on a charge. Then, put up battery changing stations on the
> > interstate highway system (USA) for those occasional longer trips. It's
> > a no-brainer. Yet another scheme is the plug-in gas electric. Runs on
> > power from the grid 90% of the time, uses gas only to extend its range
> > beyond the 100 or so miles you get out of the battery.
> >
> > Either of the above are far better that elect. => H2 => electricity.
>
> None of today's batteries has enough density to replace gasoline. Add the
> fact that batteries are expensive and need to be trashed every couple of
> years, plus long charging times and you can see why it is a losing proposition,
> with current battery technology at least.

Actually, I'd expect plug-in hybrids to make a big impact. A few
figures (based on high price UK petrol):

Fuel cost per 100km
Hybrid on night time electric power: 25p
Audi A2 1.2tdi (the most efficient car on the market): £3
Typical car (e.g. Ford Mondeo): £10

Emissions per 100km:
Hybrid powered from UK electricity grid: 50g / km
Audi A2 1.2 tdi: 81g / km

The majority of cars do about 30km/day. That means they can be 70-90%
electric powered.

Typical savings are £300 - £1,000 per year.

Here's an extract from The Economist, Technology Quarterly:

The next step may be the "plug-in" hybrid, which is not the backwards
step its name suggests. Unlike the electric cars of the 1990s, none of
today's hybrids needs to be plugged in—but if plugging were an option
it would be a good idea. Andrew Frank and his team at the University
of California Davis' Hybrid Electric Vehicle Centre are working
exclusively on plug-in hybrids, which can operate as pure-electric
vehicles over short distances (up to 60 miles, with a large enough
battery pack) but can switch to a hybrid system when needed. Since the
average American driver travels about 30 miles a day, plug-in hybrids
could be recharged overnight, when electricity is cheaper to produce,
and need never use petrol at all, except on longer trips.

According to studies carried out by the Electric Power Research
Institute (EPRI), a non-profit organisation based in Palo Alto,
California, plug-in hybrids could be one of the cleanest and most
efficient kinds of car. In 2002, the EPRI teamed up with
DaimlerChrysler to build five plug-in hybrid vans, the first of which
was unveiled at a trade show in September. The larger battery packs
make the upfront costs for plug-ins higher than for other hybrids. But
Bob Graham of the EPRI says the added costs could be more than
recouped over the vehicle's life.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Hydrogen Production Method Could Bolster Fuel Supplies
    ... put up battery changing stations on the ... I'd expect plug-in hybrids to make a big impact. ... Hybrid powered from UK electricity grid: ...
    (sci.energy)
  • Re: Hydrogen Production Method Could Bolster Fuel Supplies
    ... I'd expect plug-in hybrids to make a big impact. ... > battery pack) but can switch to a hybrid system when needed. ... electricity that charges them must come from somewhere. ...
    (sci.energy)
  • Re: Hydrogen Production Method Could Bolster Fuel Supplies
    ... I'd expect plug-in hybrids to make a big impact. ... > battery pack) but can switch to a hybrid system when needed. ... electricity that charges them must come from somewhere. ...
    (sci.energy.hydrogen)
  • Re: OT: Blast From The Past
    ... was talking about how much better off we would be with Electric Cars, ... Most of the Electricity in this Country comes from burning Coal for the ... More of the power is lost in trying to store it in the battery. ... All in all, he prefers hybrids, but Electric Cars are overall bad for our ...
    (alt.guitar.amps)
  • Re: OT: Blast From The Past
    ... was talking about how much better off we would be with Electric Cars, ... Most of the Electricity in this Country comes from burning Coal for the ... More of the power is lost in trying to store it in the battery. ... All in all, he prefers hybrids, but Electric Cars are overall bad for our ...
    (alt.guitar.amps)