Re: Electrolysis resistance webpage
From: Don Lancaster (don_at_tinaja.com)
Date: 12/29/04
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Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 09:24:57 -0700
Bill Ward wrote:
>
> On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 03:22:09 GMT, "H2O" <h2o@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I was searching and I found this website about it.
> >Is it possible to do the things that are shown using their
> >equations?:
> >http://www.spots.ab.ca/~belfroy/hydrogenFuel.html
>
> Only if you _exactly_ duplicate the apparatus. After a
> quick read thru, this looks to me like it's by someone just
> learning to do scientific experiments. It's useful mostly
> as a learning experience for the original experimenter, as
> the derived equations are not general. They appear to apply
> only to the apparatus used to collect the data.
>
> You could take the same type of data on your own setup, use
> the same curve fitting techniques and see how they compare.
>
> >I want to do this project again, and add it to my science fair, only one
> >question. I think I understand what the resistance is, but not sure. Is the
> >resistance how much of the electricity put is actually used in the process,
> >and the other is lost, if it is so, where is the other electricity lost, to
> >the corroding?
>
> One way of thinking about resistance is as restriction to
> the flow of current. Imagine a hose flowing water. Large
> diameter hoses have lower resistance and flow more water at
> a given pressure. Long skinny hoses have higher resistance
> and flow less water at the same pressure.
>
> If you increase the pressure, more water will flow in any of
> the hoses. If you crimp a hose by bending it, you will
> increase the resistance and the flow will decrease. If you
> completely stop the flow, the resistance is infinite.
>
> An electrical circuit is analogous, with voltage
> representing pressure and current representing flow.
> The resistor is like a hose carrying electrons instead of
> water.
>
> Energy lost to resistance always shows up as heat. The
> amount is always the voltage drop across the resistance
> times the current through it.. Watts = Volts times amps.
>
> Corrosion is another matter. In a battery, it actually
> generates electricity.
>
> Look up DC circuits and Ohms law for a more complete
> explanation of what's going on.
>
> >One section talks about solid water but how is the process
> >done then, is the water frozen to begin and being heated to melt?
> >
> I think the experimenter was trying to show that ionic
> conduction occurs in both solids and liquids. It doesn't
> have much to do with generating hydrogen in general.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bill Ward
There appears to be a fatal flaw in their using a Digital Ohmmeter to
measure electyrolysis cell impedance. The applied voltage is most likely
well under that for electrolysis to take place, giving them utterly
meaningless and totally worthless results.
Even if it was high enough to produce electrolysis, the data would be
accurate at that rate and that rate only. And wildly wrong otherwise.
Even worse, the applied voltage in a typical Digital Ohmmeter is itself
a function of the measured load resistance. Thus, if you change brands
of Digital Ohmmeter, you will likely get wildly different results.
Ideally, the energy loss in the electrolyte resistance should be
negligible compared to the energy converted to hydrogen by Faraday's
law.
The experiment is thus not even wrong.
Only a slowly swept v-i curve would give accurate impedance info.
Easily done with a BASIC STAMP and a digital oscilloscope.
-- Many thanks, Don Lancaster Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552 voice: (928)428-4073 email: don@tinaja.com Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com
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