Re: hydrogen powered cars?

AE wrote: 
Don Lancaster wrote:

AE wrote:

Hydrogen can be produced using any power source delivering electricity - 



Not even wrong.

The loss of exergy is staggering because electrolysis is inherently a net destroyer of value.
... 


Not even wrong.

The water electrolysis systems I know are working with an efficiency of about 65% - starting with electricity.

That wildly overstated figure is preamortized and ignores the outrageous monthly replatinization costs. True fully burdened electrolysis efficiencies range from negligible down to negative.

Also, it is virtually impossible to actually buy an electrolysizer today. Try it for a rude surprise.

But worse yet, that is a 65% efficiency at uselessly converting very high value kilowatt hours into fewer very low value ones. Electrolysis is basically, fundamentally, and inherently a destroyer of value.

There are ALWAYS more intelligent things to do with electricity than throwing away most of its value in electrolysis.

Electrolysis is TOTALLY USELESS for bulk hydrogen apps when driven from high value sources such as utility grid or pv solar. Because of fundamental thermodynamic principles involving exergy, the process is pretty much the same as 1:1 converting US Dollars into Mexican pesos.

The reason being that the value of any watthour of energy is determined by its exergy quality equal to its thermodynamically reversibly recoverable fraction. The exergy of electricity is very high. The exergy of unstored hydrogen gas is very low and quite likely negative.

See http://www.tinaja.com/glib/energfun.pdf for a detailed explanation of why thermodynamic fundamentals GUARANTEE that electrolysis from high value sources flat out ain't gonna happen.

Ever.

--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster
Synergetics   3860 West First Street  Box 809  Thatcher, AZ 85552
voice: (928)428-4073 email: don@xxxxxxxxxx

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com
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