Re: hydrogen powered cars?

AE wrote:

Charles Edmondson wrote:

...
Hi AE,

Let me see if I can explaing this...


You have some great electricity, but you want to drive a car. For today, you use the electricity in your house, and use the savings to buy gasoline.

But, lets say, you are an envirowhacko, and have a religous thing about using electricity.


... or oil prices went up to 100 or 200 $ per barrel and water, solar, nuclear, whatever power is simply the cheaper solution.

At which point, you don't worry too much about a personal vehicle, since your biggest problem if trying to find food, since the society that might have been able to produce a cheaper solution just totally collapsed. No one can afford food, basic transportation of staples is prohibitively expensive, etc. But, that is a whole other discussion... 8-)


Then, you build yourself a battery powered electric vehicle. 


Not good: I need speed and range.

In addition today's battery powered vehicles are too slow, have to get re-charged too frequently - which takes too much time if batteries are stayiung in place, and which requires the right type of batteries being available to change them.

As for speed and range, they are comparable and probably superior to an H2 powered vehicle. Most of the high speed and long range quotes you get from possbile H2 vehicles are marketing speak.. i.e. inflated by an order of magnitude. 90% of most consumers would have no problem with the normal range of an electric vehicle that is charged overnight. It is just that darned 10% of the time when I have to go visit Aunt Millie, or the crazies that insist on living 50 miles from their workplace...


You can't buy one (just like you can't buy an H2 powered one) because there is no economic reason to manufacture one, so it is strictly a build it yourself proposition today. Why not H2? Because, by the time you buy a electrolyser (good luck on that one too...) 


No problem - I might buy one of the small HOGEN-GC models from Science
Support ...

develop a usable storage method,


Like liquid hydrogen zylinders used by major hydrogen suppliers like Linde ...

Oh, then add in the compressor/coolers to liquify the hydrogen, the hazmat training for yourself and family to deal with any spills, the added insurance costs for operating a rocket fuel production station... I did say usable, not just possible. There is a huge step between the two!


use that to store your H2 output, and then also store it in your vehicle, and then buy (Ha-ha, again) the fuel cells to go to the electric motors on your H2 vehicle, you find out it was way cheaper and easier to have bought a whole bunch of laptop batteries, and built your own motor drive circuits, and built a pure electric. Also, you conserved a whole lot more resources and energy that way.


Of course you are aware that pre-series models of hydrogen driven cars are available and that at least one manufactorer is planning to make this car commercially available while the current gas-driven model is still in production (which gives a hint toward the time I have to wait for my hydrogen car)?


Oh? You have seen their actual production plans then, and not just their marketing materials? And they are going to do full commercial production of this vehicle, and not just a limited run special edition marked up by 500% for a limited market of rich envirowhackos or govenment agencies? Excuse me, but again, I am talking reality, not the weather on planet Zenon... 8-)


Now, you talked about a plane. Then, you take that electricity, and use that to power a fuel synthesis plant that makes synthetic gasoline.


What process would you suggest ot do that and what efficiency would you expcet for this process?


Actually, William Mook has occasionally posted info on his proposal to take coal, combine it with cheap hydrogen produced by solar, and produce decent hi-test. Yep, it still uses fossil fuels, in this case coal, to supply the carbon, but we have a LOT of coal...

H2 would only be useful if you were going to build a zeppelin...


Interesting claim, since hydrogen driven planes were already successfully tested ...

Ha-Ha. Again, you are talking lab curiosities and one-off designs that are sponsored by government and academic agencies. We are not even talking anything that could be efficiently produced for mass use. Unless that is a rocket plane, it is just a demonstation (of futility) project. When you see Boeing designing the 797 to use LH2, then you have something. Until then, you are still in science fiction land.

Charlie

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