Re: Ammonia Hydrazine and Methanol as Hydrogen Transportation and Storage Systems

On Jun 10, 5:25 pm, Damon Hill <damon1S...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Due to toxicity, hydrazine as a general energy carrier won't ever
happen. Period. It can be detonated, too.

Ammonia is less hazardous, but it's got other practical problems and
it's definitely not something that can be 'oopsed' in large quantities.

--Damon

What can? Whatever we oops, it is but a pittance compared to
continually putting 2 billion tons of CO2 in the air every month ad
infinitum.

Also, diluting Hydrazine in water to 70% or so, makes it more stable.

The safety data on chemicals is interesting to look at...

http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/AM/ammonia_anhydrous.html
http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/HY/hydrazine.html
http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/ME/methyl_alcohol.html
http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/HY/hydrogen.html
http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/ET/ethane.html

The toxicology of hydrocarbons is not fully investigated, so we don't
really know how harmful they could be, yet highly energetic
alternatives to hydrocarbons is fully researched and that knowledge is
used to 'prove' that those alternatives are more dangerous than the
less investigated hydrocarbons..

But what gets me is that people talk as if hydrogen pipelines will
never be built, or that they're entirely too difficult technically and
so forth. The reality is hydrogen pipelines have been in use for
decades without incident

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/pdfs/hpwgw_questissues_campbell.pdf

And so too have ammonia pipelines and even hydrazine pipelines been in
use for decades without incident.

Hydrogen pipelines are doable, pipelines for all of these highly
energetic products are doable. These products that deliver copious
hydrogen energy with zero carbon are all doable at reasonable
prices..

Check this out.

Magellan Midstream Partners (MMP) is an example of a company who has
been operating 1,100 miles of Ammonia pipeline delivery system in the
mid-west for decades without incident yet you speak as if such things
are highly theoretical if not impossible; Extracted from their Annual
Report

Ammonia Pipeline System

MMP's ammonia pipeline system consists of an ammonia pipeline and six
terminals. It transports ammonia from production facilities in Texas
and Oklahoma to terminals in the Midwest. The ammonia pipeline system
segment accounted for 1% of MMP's consolidated revenue in 2006. The
ammonia pipeline has a maximum annual delivery capacity of
approximately 900,000 tons. It originates at production facilities in
Borger, Texas and Enid and Verdigris, Oklahoma, and terminates in
Mankato, Minnesota. It transports ammonia to 13 delivery points,
including the six terminals owned by MMP. The ammonia transported
through the system is used primarily as nitrogen fertilizer. The
facilities at these points provide its customers with the ability to
deliver ammonia to distributors who sell the ammonia to farmers and to
store ammonia for future use. These facilities also provide its
customers with the ability to remove ammonia from the pipeline for
distribution to upgrade facilities that produce complex nitrogen
compounds.

Hydrazine too is regularly handled in large quantities by pipeline and
is a primary candidate for implementing a hydrogen economy.

http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=7101398

So, Damon your hand-wringing over ammonia, hydrazine, and hydrogen is
over-wrought and misplaced. You ought to be worrying more about
getting more toxicity data on stuff that is in broader use, like
gasoline, and consider the toxicity of unlimited carbon release on our
environment.

Back in the 80s people converted automobiles to run on ammonia

http://gregvezina.com/
http://gregvezina.com/hydrofuel/AVSEQ01CD.mov

the US Air Force has an Auxiliary Power Unit for the F-16 that runs on
70% Hydrazine. This stuff isn't science-fiction, isn't dangerous, and
isn't that hard.


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