Re: Ammonia Hydrazine and Methanol as Hydrogen Transportation and Storage Systems

On Jun 11, 7:49 am, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Willie.Moo...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Williamknowsbest wrote:
Eeyore wrote:

It's [Ammonia] a poison. It kills ppl.

So is gasoline - but we use it for fuel anyway

Who was ever killed by sniffing gasoline fumes ?

Here are 35

http://www.drugtext.org/library/articles/912410.htm

In the US hundreds of adolescents die each year from petrol fumes.

That's intentional abuse.

How about the wider population ?

Graham- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Here are the figures for the whole population;

Gasoline Property Fires: 120,000/year
Gasoline Serious Injury (Burns) 30,000/year
Gasoline Deaths Due to Burns: 5,000/year
Gasoline Serious Injury (Inhalation) 1,500/year
Gasoline Deaths Due to Inhalatoin: 200/year

Ammonia Property Damage; No Available Data
Ammonia Serious Injury: No Available Data
Ammonia Deaths 12,000/year*

*This is attributing all cander deaths, all pulmonary deaths and all
heart attack deaths due to cigarette smoking to the ammonia cigarette
companies put in their product to increase nicotine absorption in the
blood stream.

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=TESTIMONIES&p_id=92

The thing is, Ammonia is so dangerous its legal to mix an ammonia salt
in a product that you can buy, light up and inhale the Ammonia gases
as they are produced so you absorb the addictive material in that
product better.

But as far as injuiries, even intentional ones, I couldn't find
anything dude! Not that there aren't injuries on the farms

http://www.pp.okstate.edu/ehs/training/OSHAFARM.HTM

There are 120,000 farm related injuries per year, and ALL inuries MUST
be reported to the EPA and OSHA. Exposure after all did occur during
normal business so its not like someone getting a whiff of gasoline at
a gas pump (which is exempt from reporting) or a release occuring at a
drill site (which is exempt from reporting (those OSHA figures don't
include some very interesting accidents for oil wells - but DO include
every mishap on a farm.))

Most of the 120,000 injuries and 1,300 deaths are due to harvesting
mishaps. Ammonia exposure isn't separately listed unfortunately. I
guess its not that important.

Machinery that cuts and processes plants have sharp motor driven parts
and when people get into close proximity, bad things can happen. But
mostly its the very young, who aren't aware of the risks, and the very
old, who aren't quick and agile, who have the most injuries. Also,
working conditions play a role. Most inhalation and burning deaths
are due to cleaning out the offal collected from cattle operations or
cleaning silos. Most chemical deaths and injury are due to pesticide
exposure, not Ammonia - judging from the documents I could find at
OSHA.

And not that there aren't people out there looking;

Farm workers unions and litigation attorneys are targeting Ammonia
exposure of late, in part because people can smell it easily and
report it unequivocally;

http://www.ufcw.org/your_industry/manufacturing/safety_health_news_and_facts/ammonia_hazards.cfm

No, the bottom line is tha people know ammonia when they smell it.
They an detect it far below the threshold of any sort of danger. And
when they smell it, the avoid it and take measures to fix it. Not so
with gasoline vapors. Which is why it can accumulate and explode
into fires without people's knowledge.

Judging by the actual experience of people, and not just the MSDS
reports that the government prints (which are a HUGE help by the way,
we ought to be able to say something more about gasoline and other
fuels other than 'testing hasn't been done') Ammonia is likely to be
far safer and more reliable than gasoline by one if not two orders of
magnitude.

Of course a road powered maglev vehicle like any that I provided for
you would do away with the need for ANY fuel whatever in vehicles -
and lower costs of power transmission AND roadways - since maglev
roadways are cheaper and easier to maintain than asphalt roadways.

http://www.launchpnt.com/uploads/media/001_Fiske_Magtube_01.pdf
http://faculty.washington.edu/jbs/itrans/suppes.htm
http://www.magtube.com/index.php/the_solution/urban_magtube
http://www.launchpnt.com/Magtube.480.0.html
http://kinetic.seattle.wa.us/prt.html

So, there's a natural reordering of systems as we integrate power
netowrks transportation networks and yes, even communications networks
using new technologies.

Large solar collector arrays spread 18 miles deep along the US/Mexico
border produces HVDC electricity which is transmitted to nearby
communities on both sides of the border where NaS batteries provide
power day in day out. HVDC electricity also electrolyzes water from
the Gulf of Mexico, the Rio Grande River, and the Gulf of California
and the Pacific Ocean. Water is also cleaned and desalnated and used
by people on both sides of the border. - and produces hydrogen.
Hydrogen is converted to ammonia using the Haber Bosch Process. A
portion of the ammonia is converted to hydrazine using the Olin
Process. The ammonia/hydrazine mix is piped across North America on
both sides of the border. Autocatalytic decomposition of the Ammonia
Hydradizne mix (Mok Stoff - haha) consists of colloidally suspended
hydrazine ice within ammonia liquid. The material releases the
hydrogen contained in the mix with an energy content equal to the
hydrogen weight content of the material through a simple autocatalytic
reaction. . This material is supplied to ALL fossil fueled power
plants across North America - including Mexico and Canada to produce 2
TW continuous electrical output with zero CO2 emissions.

The stranded coal is converted to jet fuel, diesel fuel and gasoline
using additional hydrogen at each power plant. The hydrocarbon liquid
fuels from coal are distributed to local and regional retailers
through their local pipeline network.

Yet more hydrogen is generated and transmitted through moderate
pressure gas at each power plant along natural gas lines to homes,
offices, factories. This low pressure hydrogen gas is used for
heating, lighting, and electrical power generation using fuel cells.
Re pressurized in underground tanks, fueling stations for hydrogen
cars are also supplied.

Hydrogen is supplied to fuel cells are installed to convert hydrogen
to provide HVDC power lines that power maglev roadways sporting
halbach lift systems. These roadways double wire regions so that
homeowners have a choice of supply. Older AC power lines, new HVDC
power lines, or reformed natural gas lines that now deliver hydrogen
gas suitable for use in home fuel cells.

For farmers, a simple adjustment to the autocatalytic process reforms
the hydrazine/ammonia mix into pure ammonia for local and regional
distribution to agricultural users. This is done on the farm in
portable low cost units so that farmers can run their tractors,
generate electricity for their home, power their hydrogen automobiles,
or ammonia/hydrazine automobiles, and provide ammonia on the farm for
about 1/7th the cost they pay today.

Motorists will have a plethora of choices. They'll choose from
gasoline or diesel fuel where half the energy comes from the sun, and
the other half was obtained by substituting sunpower for coal power.
These will be conventional ICE or hybrids. Or they could choose
ammonia/hydrazine vehicles that possess ICE, Hybrid, or fuel cell
drive train. Or they could choose compressed or liquified hydrogen
vehicles that possess ICE, Hybrid or fuel cell drive train again. Or
they could choose maglev vehicles that get their power from the
roadway they ride on.

That's the way I see it, and its all good.

.

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