Re: 12 million acre solar panel array

On Jun 14, 12:36 pm, Don Lancaster <d...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Fred Kasner wrote:
Willie.Moo...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

ENERGY INDEPENDENCE FOR AMERICA

A twelve million acre solar panel array is proposed stretching 1,951
miles from the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific Ocean. It is some of the
sunniest lands in the US. It consists of a 10 mile wide swath. Using
16.4 billion panels and generating 8.8 trillion watts when the sun
shines, the system produces 1,000,000 metric tons of hydrogen per day
with a heat value equivalent to 23.2 million barrels of oil.

Hydrogen is generated from water drawn from the Gulf of Mexico, the
RioGrande River, the Gulf of California, and the Pacific Ocean, along
with numerous rivers and streams, and water wells drilled in the
region.

And where is all this hydrogen stored and then used for energy purposes?

But lets get to the real nonsense first.

What are you going to do with all that chlorine gas that is generated
when electrolying that sea water? I know we use it to kill all those
latinos trying to slip into the USA over the border.
FK

Most individuals obscenely underestimate the REAL land area needed for
large scale pv solar power.

The Springerville site 28 acres, it has a peak output of only 2.4 MW.
Thus 86 peak kilowatts per acre is the industry norm for its showcase site.

Because of uptime usage, that translates to something like 20 average
kilowats per acre.

A typical pv site needs far more land area than a coal plant AND its
mine combined.

Converting solar pv electricity to hydrogen via electrolysis, of course,
is fundamentally stupid because of the monumental and irretriveable loss
of exergy.

There ALWAYS will be more intelligent things to do with high value
electricity than instantly and irreversibly destroying most of its value.

Detailed analysis athttp://www.tinaja.com/glib/energfun.pdfandhttp://www.tinaja.com/glib/muse153.pdf

--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss:http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: d...@xxxxxxxxxx

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site athttp://www.tinaja.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What motivated you to write this Don?

Are you saying 12 million acres isn't enough land to meet all of
America's energy needs? That's not true. I show below that 12
million acres is more than enough area to supply ALL of America's
energy needs. Its only 5 mile wide swath along the US Mexico border.

Check it out, each acre in this region is illuminated with 27,000 kWh
every day. That's 6 kWh per m2 per day. And at 18% conversion
efficiency that's 4,860 kWh ELECTRICAL generate per day per acre
usable electric power.

Now, here is where your exergy concerns don't make a helluva lot a
sense Don.

Sure, I AGREE WITH YOU that if you had a consumer who could take all
of the 58,320 million kWh produced each day from the 12 million acres
as DC electricity during the daylight hours and didn't need any
electricity at all when the sun went down, why heck yeah - they'd be
the perfect customer! haha..

But that customer doesn't exist. So, what to do?

Well, one answer is to store that energy you collect during the day in
some way to use it when you need it.

And here you start asking meaningful questions like, what's the lowest
balance of system COST - not what's the least exergy loss is - oh
exergy concerns are important, but secondary to total cycle cost -
especially once you realize that you need to have a balance of system
cost to make use of sunlight for more than a tiny fraction of your
total energy needs. I mean does anyone stop to ask what the exergy
of petroleum is burning in your engine? No. They just want to know
what it costs to take you a mile down the road. Same here
figuratively speaking.

Now, that we have put your exergy concerns to rest Don, lets look at
what we need to do to efficiently compete against oil.

One thing you can do is you can take 50,000 kWh of DC electricity
available when the sun is shining and at no other time, and create a
metric ton of hydrogen with it from 9 tons of water.

That metric ton of hydrogen has the same heating value as 6.17 metric
tons of coal, or 23.2 barrels of oil and so forth.

So, once you've fully saturated the market for DC electricity when the
sun is shining you can go and create a demand for DC electricity when
the sun is shining - yourself by making hydrogen from water and that
DC electricity when the sun is shining - provided you do so at a cost
less than the cost of coal and oil made at an equivalent heating
value.

Now, I've mentioned elsewhere I can make electricity for 1/3 cent per
kWh in the US Southwest. I have also mentioned that I can make
hydrogen for $170 per metric ton. These costs are less than the cost
of an equivalent amount of heat available from coal and oil and
natural gas. And this is all the market cares about. COST and
SUPPLY. I've got both..

Now, the proposed 12 million acres of solar collectors along the US
Mexico border captures 58,320 million kWh of solar DC electricity each
day. This is enough to make 1.17 milion metric tons of hydrogen each
day. This hydrogen has the same heating value as 7.2 million metric
tons of coal. But America uses only 3 million metric tons of coal
each year. So, that's only 488,000 metric tons of hydrogen. And to
convert that coal into 21 million barrels of liquid fuel (100% of
America's need btw) requires an additional 350,000 metric tons of
hydrogen. That's only 838,000 metric tons of hydrogen. So, this
leaves an additional 332,000 tons of hydrogen surplus. Which can be
converted to a variety of forms and exported for profit.

Who could take the equivlanet of 10% of America's oil demand?
MEXICO! Why not? Per capita energy use correlates with wealth.
Mexico is full of hardworking intelligent people. All they lack is
low cost energy. And guess what? We can provide it to them, with the
spare hydrogen we make - and create a wealthy unified vigorously
growing North America. After all, as WalMart has learned, a wealthy
Mexico buys lots and lots of American products - helping out us as we
help out them.


.

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