Re: Low cost hydrogen today

On Jan 9, 12:33 pm, william.m...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Jan 7, 5:48 pm, BradGuth <bradg...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:



On Jan 7, 10:38 am, william.m...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

Hydrogen peroxide is a compact oxygen source.  A kg of H2O2 produces
529 grams of water and 471 grams of oxygen along with 2.7 megajoules
of energy.  So, 694 ml of H2O2 produces 471 grams of oxygen.  That's
679 g/L oxygen.

Oxygen is 1.309 g/L at 25C and 1 atm.  So, you'd have to compress
oxygen to 520 atmospheres to achieve comparable densities.  This would
take energy, and also release that energy when brought back down to
one atmosphere.

So, there might be some room for an AIP (air independent process) that
takes hydrogen and hydrogen peroxide, to a thermal engine, and
combines it to produce water and heat.

Combine 1 kg of hydrogen with 8 kg of oxygen and get 143 MJ of thermal
energy.
Obtain the 8 kg of oxygen from 2.125 kg of hydrogen peroxide, and add
another 5.7 MJ of thermal energy to the mix.

Compressed hydrogen delivered by pipelines - described in ASME
standards for hydrogen infrastructure - you have 30 kg/m3 at 100
atm.   A hydrogen peroxide pipe operating at near atmospheric pressure
carries 679 kg/m3 at 1 atm - a far smaller line 1/26th diam of the
hydrogen line - operating at 1 atm.

A 200 atm oxygen line the same size as the hydrogen line would be
needed to ship the same amount of oxygen in gaseous form.

Very interesting data, and a few worthy ideas to boot for
incorporating h2o2.

Remember that this world utilizes 10 million tonnes of medium/low
grade h2o2/year as is, and it would certainly be a very good thing if
that h2o2 were derived via renewable Mook energy, instead of
extensively via fossil fuels or spendy nuclear alternatives.

With some further polishing, perhaps Chu could be informed without
overdoing it.

 ~ BG

The world uses hydrogen peroxide primarily as a bleach and
disinfectant.  The total energy content is 27 million GJ of energy.
That's equivalent to 4.4 million barrels of oil in terms of energy.

By comparison, the world uses 28 billion barrels of crude oil (3,810
million tonnes) 6,300x as much energy, and 5,500 million tonnes of
coal - containing the equivalent of 21 billion barrels of crude oil of
energy - so, you can see that hydrogen peroxide is nearly non-existant
as an energy source.

Compared to batteries however;

http://www.reportbuyer.com/computing_electronics/batteries/worldwide_...http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-55.htm

With $0.1 per watt-hour and $71 billion per year market - we have a
total of 710 billion watt-hours.  A watt hour is 3,600 joules - so
that's a total of 2.6 million GJ - equivalent to 419,000 barrels of
crude per year!!   That's a trifling amount of energy.  In fact, this
is equivalent to about 10% of the present day H2O2 market, and its
about 100x more valuable than the bleach/sanitizer market.  So, this
is an ideal vehicle for you to take over the business since you create
so much value with it.  Further, growth in robotics and short-haul
transport, like golf carts, motorized wheel chairs, and segway type
devices, spell even more money in the future!!

Ok then, with your kind help I'll make those fantastic h2o2 batteries,
and with my help we'll get Chu and his boss BHO to fork over a few
billion of our hard earned public loot, along with the first million
sunny acres of public land (free of charge) for accommodating your
Mook PV farm. That'll give us an average green/renewable energy basis
of one TW, some of which (say 10%) I'll use for making h2o2, and if
need be I'll take another 15% for making aluminum and a few other
nifty alloys. From less than each 40x40 mile square of donated public
land, that'll leave you with 750 GW for continuously creating
hydrogen.

Indirectly this PV farm should also assist in global cooling by
eliminating a good many greenhouse gasses. Underneath those
impressive Mook PV arrays, we could grow stuff that likes shade and
heat., such as bio slime for Mook synfuel that’s fortified with H2..

Are we good?

~ BG
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Low cost hydrogen today
    ... oxygen to 520 atmospheres to achieve comparable densities. ... take energy, and also release that energy when brought back down to ... Obtain the 8 kg of oxygen from 2.125 kg of hydrogen peroxide, ... incorporating h2o2. ...
    (sci.energy.hydrogen)
  • Re: Is hydrogen economy years away or is it here?
    ... Stewart energy which was aquired recently makes a processor built on a flatbed chasis with 220v ac and a garden hose entering in the front and it cracks, vents the O2, compresses, ... but I wonder how many mpg's could I get from hydrogen peroxide? ... While its application as a monopropellant for large engines has waned, small thrusters for attitude control that run on hydrogen peroxide are still in use on some satellites, and provide benefits on the spacecraft, making it easier to throttle and safer loading and handling of fuel before launch. ...
    (misc.invest.stocks)
  • Re: Renewable hydrogen is possible today
    ... Hydrogen peroxide while useful in some specialty applications doesn't ... contain enough energy to be of interest as a general fuel. ... tons ammonia ... Hydrogen peroxide is more in line with batteries than fuel. ...
    (sci.energy.hydrogen)
  • Re: How does Willie manage to post so much ?
    ... MAJOR energy applications, but you can make mucho dinero in secondary ... Its about 12x as energy dense as hydrogen peroxide, ... take the 1 liter squeeze bottle insert the stem ...
    (sci.energy.hydrogen)
  • Re: LA-4541-MS
    ... extract 40% of the unit's energy as free-electron laser energy by ... flouride laser initiators - so, we need a constant supply of hydrogen, ... I have showed you why hydrogen peroxide is not a suitable primary ... Now you have chosen to ignore FACTS - they are facts because they are ...
    (sci.space.policy)