Re: World's First Fuel Cell-Powered Train Locomotive Slated for 2008
From: Ian St. John (istjohn_at_noemail.ca)
Date: 08/11/04
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Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 06:27:42 -0400
Stephen Sprunk wrote:
> "Ian St. John" <istjohn@noemail.ca> wrote in message
> news:XFfSc.21015$Mq1.990024@news20.bellglobal.com...
<snip>
>>>>> Diesel ICEs are the most cost-effective powerplant for locos
>>>>> today;
>>>>
>>>> Not necessarily. For high output, the turbine would be the choice
>>>> as it is for high speed rail. Diesels are just the traditional
>>>> choice.
>>>
>>> Turbines do not exist anywhere in the world of HSR. Every HSR line
>>> in the world, including those in the US both built and proposed, is
>>> powered by overhead electric.
>>
>> You have a fascinating level of 'blind spotting'. Did you poke out
>> an eye or
>> something?
> ...
>> Turboliners Enter Service
>>
>> Monday, April 14, 2003 marked the long-awaited start of revenue
>> service with
>> the first of the refurbished RTL-III Turboliner trainsets.
>
> Okay, I missed that press release; they weren't in service before
> last year; incidentally, they went back out of service last week and
> were replaced with GM P32 diesel engines. The Turboliners have a top
> speed of 125mph and generate a pathetic 3200hp (Acela: 12,300hp) per
> trainset, not to mention they're being used on tracks that are still
> limited to 79mph.
It was one of the complaints that their service was restricted by the damage
done by heavy frieght making it impossible to run at design speeds. This is
an issue that has nothing to do with their power output. Because passenger
frieght is lighter, the power is enough if the track were level and sound.
>
> Amtrak's MetroLiners (electric MU) are/were in daily service on the
> NEC with a top speed of 135mph, and before Acela were the
> highest-speed passenger service available in the US for decades.
>
>> High speed rail using gas turbines in the U.S. goes back to 1950
>> with the 'blue goose'. Think of that. Five years after WW2. I'm not
>> sure even aircraft has turbines as a rule back then.
>
> 125mph is not HSR, and the Metroliner was marginal at 135mph.
> Acela's top speed of 150mph appears to qualify, until you notice its
> average speed is about half that -- 82mph -- due to the poor
> condition of the tracks, sharp curves, congestion junctions, etc.
Your point is hard to follow. First, the records for high speed rail are
about 186 mph with turbine power. Only the Acela is down in the 125 mph
range adn as they accept this as 'HSR' the new york line would have also
been HSR if it had been able to run at full speed. The limitations on the
service are not due to the power plant. Has this point escaped you? Let the
rails deteriorate enough and 'high speed rail' will be a walking pace.
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