Re: World's First Fuel Cell-Powered Train Locomotive Slated for 2008

From: daestrom (daestrom_at_NO_SPAM_HEREtwcny.rr.com)
Date: 08/13/04 

Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 22:10:56 GMT

"Ian St. John" <istjohn@noemail.ca> wrote in message
news:BBGSc.24631$Mq1.1393875@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Stephen Sprunk wrote:
> > "Ian St. John" <istjohn@noemail.ca> wrote in message
> > news:TevSc.14860$a65.713212@news20.bellglobal.com...
> >> Even a single car ( 24 passenger weighing 7 tons ) can have a
> >> variation from +400 kw draw to -380 kw ( if regenerative braking is
> >> used to save 40% of power demands) See Figure 3.2 at
> >> http://www.monorails.org/pdfs/Magnemotion.pdf While passenger trains
> >> have lighter weight, the higher speed and acceleration compared to
> >> freight more than compensates. Just think what the draw would be for
> >> a simple 7 car passenger train ( Acela is 3 to 10 cars) with weights
> >> of about 65 tons per car
> >>
>
http://www.bombardier.com/index.jsp?id=1_0&lang=en&file=/en/1_0/1_10/1_10_2_2.jsp%3Fmenu%3D1_1
> >>
> >> It would probably have a erratic draw of about +/- 6 megawatts and
> >> if you have more than one active on a track....
> >
> > Acela draws a peak of 9.2MW during accelerationm but during
> > deceleration it feeds a similar amount of power back into the grid;
> > average consumption is probably under 3MW. With states like
> > California having a total power output in the tens of GW, this is a
> > rounding error even with dozens of trains running.
>
> I was being conservative. You are just illustrating the large demand loads
> and surges that are produced by electic trains. And the 'average' is like
> saying that my feet are in the freezer while my head is in the oven but
'on
> average' I'm comfortable.
>
> The large VARIATIONS in load are the problem for the grid, you dim***.
You
> cannot suddenly 'switch on' 9 MW without having it noticed and the power
> grid is NOT designed for such rapid changes in demand and surge. It
requires
> a lot more 'spinning reserve' that adds costs wiithout producing revenues
as
> well major control systems to keep the grid stable.
>

9 MW is *not* that huge a problem for a grid load here in US. Many large
industrial centers have single motors running in this range. An aluminum
can manufacturing plant I know of has over a half-dozen 2500 hp motors (1.86
MW). When starting, they draw about 5 times that for each one when
starting.

Yes, it requires special service from the utility and the demand charges can
be pretty bad, but the 'grid' doesn't mind very much at all when they start
up.

> > But that takes a
> > lot more money than Amtrak has available -- they can't even cover the
> > operating costs of most of their routes, much less pay for captial
> > improvements.
>
> Poor Americans. No stain on HSR but the U.S. will alwasy be defeated on
this
> issue. It takes too many parties cooperating instead of being at each
others
> throats. Ergo the Europeans and Japanese have HSR but the U.S. is stalled
in
> a 'competitive war' with the many parties either competing with rail or
who
> would be affected by the HSR routes.
>

That's one interpretation. There are others. The difference in very dense
population areas with concentrated service needs of EU and JP versus the
spread out and diffuse transportation needs of the US is another. The
socialized transportation systems of EU versus free market scheme is another
factor.

daestrom

Loading