Re: World's First Fuel Cell-Powered Train Locomotive Slated for 2008

From: daestrom (daestrom_at_NO_SPAM_HEREtwcny.rr.com)
Date: 08/19/04 

Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 01:46:34 GMT

"Ian St. John" <istjohn@noemail.ca> wrote in message
news:1PdUc.7972$ZI1.365730@news20.bellglobal.com...
> daestrom wrote:
> > "Ian St. John" <istjohn@noemail.ca> wrote in message
> > news:bofTc.27270$a65.1160570@news20.bellglobal.com...
> >
> > Does your country use some of the modern drugs developed to fight
> > cancer, heart-desease, or other ailments?
>
> Yup. A lot of which were invneted and developed in Canada, Europe, etc.
The
> delusion that America is the center of all progress is just that.
Delusion.
> But it is true that America is the center of the vanity crowd, with a lot
of
> it's pharmaceutical effort going into variations on penis enhancers,
valium,
> and viagra clones. It is almost impossible to make money on a real drug in
> America. If it cures the patient, the phamaceutical company can't make
money
> on it.. Only where there is socially assisted medicine can such market
> failures be overcome.

More delusions. You think the only drugs invented in the US are Valium and
Viagra. How about cholesterol reducing drugs like Lipitor, Zietia?
Fundemental research into heart disease? Breakthroughs in transplant
surgery? Sure, these are available world-wide, but why do many come to the
US to learn these things?

>
>
> > Who invests more in
> > funding medical drug research than any other country? Wonder how
> > this 'internet' thing got started?
>
> Al Gore? ;-). But seriously, the whole of the internet was almost a
wipeout
> due to the American mindset. Good thing that Xerox didn't bury that
ethernet
> idea too deeply when they decided that all the 'progressive ideas' that
the
> PARC produced were useless nonsense. And that is not even mentioning the
> "NIH" phenomenon that keeps U.S. companies from using new developments
> invented by other companies.

Like any community, there are some that practive "NIH". But not as many in
the US as you seem to think. You paint such a broad brush with such limited
knowledge.

And Ethernet is not the sole end of TCP/IP. One is a media layer, the other
is up from that (TCP is actually a separate layer 'on top' of the IP layer).
TCP/IP can be (and often is) run over other media layers besides Ethernet
(e.g. TokenRing, Apple-Talk, even simple UUCP).

>
> > You're just being ridiculous in
> > your belief that the US is only good for warfare.
>
> Not always, but it seems to be the main 'export' of the NeoCons Fourth
> Reich.
>
> > It's just the only
> > thing you care to acknowledge. To acknowledge any of the peaceful
> > accomplishments would tear at the fabric of your beliefs about us.
>
> What 'beliefs'. I have worked with and like Americans on an individual
> basis. It is the culture and the executive that are losers. I have hopes
> that America will pay the price of freedom some day and live with 'risk'
> without using it as a justification for a police state. I even hope that
> they will discover the advantages of technological advancement, rather
than
> 'why change' lethargy. Using up the accumulated 'capital' of the past to
pay
> for the NeoCon party is really really stupid. Much more would be done by
> developing alternative and sustainable power than trying to control the
> middle east by military might.
>
> And it has a *chance* of succeeding which I cannot say for the NeoCon
> strategy.
>
>
> >
> >> Major inventions sit on the shelf because
> >> nobody can figure out how to convert them to dollar without taking a
> >> risk of some kind or investing real money.
> >>
> >>> The difference in very
> >>> dense population areas with concentrated service needs of EU and JP
> >>> versus the spread out and diffuse transportation needs of the US is
> >>> another.
> >>
> >> Always one excuse or another. Everyone else had it easy. Only in
> >> America is it just TOOO hard. Want some cheese with that whine?
> >>
> >
> > Didn't say it was *hard*. Just that your "one answer fits everywhere"
> > attitude is stupid.
>
> I said nothing about one answer fitting all. The economic advantages of
> electric HSR are obvious.

No, they are not. Not when the population density is much lower and more
spread out. Not if you can't fill a train with enough paying passengers
because there isn't enough of them wanting to go to the same terminal from
the same terminal.

You're being closed minded in thinking electric HSR is 'obvious'. Sure, it
is 'obvious' if all the circumstances that make it the best choice are
duplicated. But you aren't thinking about what sort of circumstances go
into it. But what if passenger rail service itself is the *real* problem?

HSR just expands the radius of service territory somewhat by putting more
territory within an 'acceptable' travel time. But even then, it cannot
provide 'acceptable' travel time cross-continent, or even half-way across
the continent. So a second infrastructure (wide spread air travel) is
needed for cross-continental travel. And with that second infrastructure in
place, HSR becomes redundant and falls into obscurity.

If you study what happened to passenger rail service in the US in the '50's
and '60's, you will understand more about service in the US. Look past some
of the minor issues of union feather-bedding and antiquainted operating
rules and examine *why* passengers started flying and driving instead of
taking the train. What does HSR do to aliviate any of those issues?
Nothing.

Rail right-of-ways were well established before air travel. But with lots
of cheap land for airports, the US airline infrastructure has been able to
saturate the same geography. As an example, I can drive about the same
distance to get to either a passenger rail station, or a major US airport.
>From the airport, my choices of destination are many more than from the rail
station. So even if the rail were HSR (with electric equipment), it would
not be the preferred transportation.

> I just pointed out that you essentially have to
> build a separate dedicated 50 kv grid to service it. And you can get the
> same speeds without that massive investment with the turbo train ( a
turbine
> equivalent of the Acela with all the same features and from the same
> company ).
>

If the electric service were the only hold up for HSR, then you would have a
point. But passenger rail service in general in the US is not suffering
because of some 'massive investment' with the turbo train. Rather,
passenger service as a whole suffers from several problems that
electrification will not solve.

> > "Gee, xx works for us, you yanks are idiots for
> > not doing the same thing." What a crock. Did you ever think that
> > maybe there are some valid differences in the geography? Or don't
> > you understand the relationship between population density and
> > economics of passenger rail?
>
> I guess do want just to whine. No cheese?
>
> >
> > Maybe if you expand your knowledge about different parts of the world
> > you could learn some things. You're guilty of the narrow-minded
> > anti-social nationalistic behavior that the US is often accused of.
>
> And is obviously guilty of. I am much more aquainted with the realities of
> Europe and the east. As has been noted, the backwardness of American
stems,
> not from 'it's too hard, sniff whimper' but the inabilty of America to
work
> for common goals which is necessary where it is more than a one man job.
>

So, before when you 'whined' about how Americans always say "its too
hard...", you now recant and say America's 'backwardness' stems from its
'inability of America to work for common goals...'. Well, which is it?

Right, we should have some puppet get up and set some 'common goal' for us
and we should all follow like sheep. Do what they say because 'its for the
common good'. After all, some puppet said so. And if that puppet starts to
say that all our problems would be solved if we would only xx, we should
just follow that doctrine?

Our diversity and devisiveness *is* one of our shortcomings, that is true.
It stalls us often when action is needed. But it is also one of our biggest
strengths. To question our leaders and question such 'common goals' is a
fundamental part of us. How do you patently decide that the land for some
public project is best used in that manner? How do you decide things like
how many hip-replacements should be done each year and what other 'common
goal' is delayed because of your decision? No doubt some 'expert' says it's
the right thing to do. And you all just assume they are correct?

daestrom

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