Re: Cellulosic Ethanol

From: Robert (RB_at_..)
Date: 08/23/04 

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 06:07:39 GMT

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 18:51:29 -0500, "Stephen Sprunk" <stephen@sprunk.org>
wrote:

>"Robert" <RB@..> wrote in message
>news:0b9ii0tirk9kfgmk8782n3defct2gda651@4ax.com...
>> On 22 Aug 2004 06:01:38 -0700, bri1600bv@hotmail.com (brianb) wrote:
>>>http://news.uns.purdue.edu/html4ever/2004/040628.Ho.ethanol.html
>>
>> This sounds very promising but until we know the overall amount of
>> energy used in the manufactuiring process, it is hard to really
>> comment quantitatively.
>
>According to ANL and the USDA, current ethanol production yields about 35%
>more energy than it consumes. This process should improve that to 89%.
>Assuming the new yeast strain adds no significant costs to the refining
>process, that means ethanol pump prices should drop 40% or so -- approaching
>the price of unleaded.
>
>Also, since this new strain can process "waste" crops that existing yeasts
>cannot, that should logically contribute to lower source fuel prices and
>correspondingly lower refined ethanol prices. I have no clue where to get
>data to support this, however.
>
>> Even with such high yields, when one takes into account the amount of
>> solar energy used in producing usable agricultural waste, the total area
>> of land needed to replace oil is quite prohibitive.
>
>How much land area do we waste by paying farmers not to work or by throwing
>out crops that don't get to market before they perish? How much land area
>is completely idled because it would cost more to farm it than the possible
>revenue?
>
>1 acre produces about 137 bushels (3.8t) of corn, which can be refined into
>383.6 gallons (9.13bbl) of Ethanol. We currently import about 4.4 billion
>barrels of oil per year; about 45% of that goes to motor fuels. Doing the
>math, we'd need 217 million acres (339,000sqmi) of source crops to replace
>gasoline as a motor fuel using current ethanol refining methods. That drops
>to 155 million acres (242,000sqmi) with the new yeasts, and presumably will
>continue to decrease as more effective techniques are found.

I think you are being over optimistic here.
You would certainly need a great deal of fertilizer and water to get yields
anything like that generally.

There is also a problem in that the 'waste' that will converted to ethanol
would normanlly plat\y a large part in maintaining soil fertility.

I think your scheme will end up in large scale desert.
 
>
>For comparison, we plant about 81 million acres with corn today; trebling
>current production wouldn't be easy, but it's not inconceivable either. Of
>course, since the new yeasts can process wastes from many crops that
>currently get burned or left in the fields to rot, presumably we wouldn't
>actually need to plant anywhere near that much additional acreage.

Burning is one of the most wasteful of all human customs.
I'm sure when the oil runs out, it will cease. Just about everything useable
will be utilized in some way.

>
>Certainly all this is cheaper than funding terrorists and then funding a
>military to protect us from our own creation...

Definitely.

>
>S

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