Re: The future of hybrid cars

From: Alex Terrell (alexterrell_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 10/15/04 

Date: 15 Oct 2004 02:22:44 -0700

"charliew2" <charliew2@ev1.net> wrote in message news:<10mu2jj19ud7n6b@corp.supernews.com>...

> > No concrete data, but demand falls by about 1/3 at night. So some
> > generators are turned off. As we (UK) don't have much hydro (apart
> > from the pumped storage) this means shutting down therm stations. This
> > certainly wastes thermal heat, and creates strain on the boilers,
> > which would prefer a constant temperature.
>
> In my experience with petrochemical units (no, I'm not a power systems
> engineer), those units can be turned down to about 50% of their nameplate
> capacity without causing big problems. I suspect that many power stations
> can say the same. Thus, you would tend to turn them down at night, and hold
> temperatures constant, but run less fuel gas and steam through them.

OK - they're cleverer than I thought. That would reduce the
efficiency, but not dramatically.
>
> >
> > Sorry, I can't quantify it. Perhaps a power systems engineer can.
> >
> > > However, I have nothing against EVs if you can sell'm.
> > >
> > In terms of overall efficency:
> >
> > Electricity generated in station at 45%, transmitted, placed in
> > battery, consumed by electric engine;
> >
> > versus
> >
> > Fuel shipped to refinery, refined, tanked to petrol station, placed in
> > car, converted to motion at ~25%;
>
> Somehow, I doubt that the petroleum fuel efficiency is this low. There is a
> LOT of heat integration in modern refineries, meaning that their thermal
> efficiency is pretty good (no, I don't have actual numbers). In addition to
> that, fuel must still be handled, distributed, treated, etc., before going
> to the electrical generator, so you can't assume 100% efficiency for the
> distribution of fuel to the electrical generator.
>
I meant power stations can do 40% - 50% is probably near term
acheivable. Internal combustion is stuck at about 25% - 35%. Fuel
cells can do 40 - 50%, I believe.

Fuel distribution is harder for petrol to cars than pit/well head to
power station.

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