Re: Using nuclear power to make renewables and a hydrogen economy cost effective

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Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 22:02:11 -0500

charliew2 included:
>
> Alex Terrell wrote:
> > "charliew2" <charliew2@ev1.net> wrote in message
> > news:<10o9rptsn9a2n3f@corp.supernews.com>...
> >
> >>>
> >>> Meanwhile, I'm continually amazed at how people with no experience
> >>> of economics or business choose such a narrow definition of excess.
> >>> If their trying to get rid of the stuff at below cost, that could be
> >>> treated by excess. (I wonder if Ryanair considers the seats it sells
> >>> for ?0.99 "excess seats").
> >>
> >> Those seats are a material thing. Electricity is energy. There's a
> >> big difference.
> >
> > They are very similar as far as this discussion is concerned, as both
> > cannot be stored and used later, and have very low marginal cost.
>
> So show me how you can store any significant amount of electricity. Even a
> big capacitor bank can only store a small amount, and only for dc current.
> If you have a storage device for ac current, I would really like to see it.
> Seats on the other hand, can be put in a warehouse for months, if necessary.
>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Enough of the friendly jousting. Do you know the efficiency
> >>> (engineering definition) drop of a power plant that is running at
> >>> half capacity?
> >>
> >> No. But I *do* know that such plants are designed for a specific
> >> nameplate capacity, and they usually can be slowed down to 40-50% of
> >> their nameplate capacity before they have to be shut down. Also,
> >> the associated equipment is designed for maximum efficiency at the
> >> nameplate capacity, so slowing them down does lose efficiency.
> >> However, as was pointed out by another poster, it makes more sense
> >> to slow them down rather than run them at their nameplate capacity
> >> in order to generate hydrogen, because the efficiency loss in
> >> hydrogen generation is greater than the efficiency loss in running
> >> them slower.
> >>
> > Agreed if your using electrolysis to generate the hydrogen. However,
> > the original post was about using the 3GW of thermal energy to produce
> > hydrogen at 50% efficiency, insteasd of electricity at 40% efficiency.
> >
>
> If the numbers for the overall process, including H2 transportation,
> pressurization, retail dispensation, etc., worked out as you have stated,
> someone would have done this by now. That 10% efficiency gain would make
> any plant using this technology rich. Why don't you get your spare change
> together and invest in this business opportunity?

Remember the economist who told his son not to pick up the $20 bill
because if it were real, someone would have snatched it up earlier.
http://inisjp.tokai.jaeri.go.jp/ACT00E/09/0903.htm

Also, I'm thinking Ryanair might be an airline .
This could affect the storability of its seats.

--- Graham Cowan, former hydrogen fan
http://www.eagle.ca/~gcowan/Paper_for_11th_CHC.doc --
how individual mobility gains nuclear cachet

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• In reply to: charliew2: "Re: Using nuclear power to make renewables and a hydrogen economy cost effective"
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• Maybe reply: Dan Bloomquist: "Re: Using nuclear power to make renewables and a hydrogen economy cost effective"
• Maybe reply: Fred McGalliard: "Re: Using nuclear power to make renewables and a hydrogen economy cost effective"
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