Re: Using nuclear power to make renewables and a hydrogen economy cost effective

From: Eric Swanson (swanson_at_notspam.net)
Date: 11/01/04 

Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 18:39:53 +0000 (UTC)

In article <10ocp1so2qijm18@corp.supernews.com>, charliew2@ev1.net says...
>
>
>Alex Terrell <alexterrell@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> "charliew2" <charliew2@ev1.net> wrote in message
>> > Alex Terrell wrote:
>> > > "charliew2" <charliew2@ev1.net> wrote in message
>> > > news:<10o9rptsn9a2n3f@corp.supernews.com>...
>> > >
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Meanwhile, I'm continually amazed at how people with no experience
>> > >>> of economics or business choose such a narrow definition of excess.
>> > >>> If their trying to get rid of the stuff at below cost, that could be
>> > >>> treated by excess. (I wonder if Ryanair considers the seats it sells
>> > >>> for ?0.99 "excess seats").
>> > >>
>> > >> Those seats are a material thing. Electricity is energy. There's a
>> > >> big difference.
>> > >
>> > > They are very similar as far as this discussion is concerned, as both
>> > > cannot be stored and used later, and have very low marginal cost.
>> >
>> > So show me how you can store any significant amount of electricity. Even a
>> > big capacitor bank can only store a small amount, and only for dc current.
>> > If you have a storage device for ac current, I would really like to see it.
>> > Seats on the other hand, can be put in a warehouse for months, if necessary.
>> >
>> I'm not sure if you're joking. When an airline talks about selling a
>> seat, they mean a bum on a seat for a journey. The 747 taking off
>> tomorrow has 412 (for example) seats. Any not used are wasted. I can't
>> store them.
>
>You really haven't a clue, do you? The airlines are selling a service. The
>plane uses approximately the same amount of energy to fly its route with or
>without that single passenger aboard. If a seat is empty, the airline loses
>the ability to recoup some of its fuel costs, which is actually an energy
>cost, and its efficiency goes down.

You really don't have a clue do you?

Airplanes use fuel to lift and carry weight, (including their own and that of
the fuel). Thus, each pound of extra load has a fuel cost, so each passenger,
(say 175 pounds) plus luggage (another 40 pounds?) means more fuel is consummed.
The mass of the aircraft is fixed to be sure, but in the case of fewer passengers,
less fuel would be required to be loaded for the trip.

A fully loaded aircraft can deliver the passengers with a fuel consumption around
25 passenger miles per gallon of jet fuel. You are right that flying with empty
seats will be a penalty to the airline, if only due to the fact that there is no
revenye to offset the amortization, depreciation and maintenance of the aircraft.
In no sense is the extra passenger added to the flight an energy neutral process,
as would be the case for an automobile (mol). 

-- 
Eric Swanson --- E-mail address: e_swanson(at)skybest.com   :-) 
--------------------------------------------------------------

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