Re: Wind energy a boon for farmers - tenfold returns !

From: Jim Greenfield (greenfield_7_at_hotmail.com)
Date: 11/18/04 

Date: 18 Nov 2004 15:59:43 -0800

jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote in message news:<iOWdnUTlk4xQ4wHcRVn-rA@rcn.net>...
> In article <3c4afb26.0411171510.62a06ca5@posting.google.com>,
> greenfield_7@hotmail.com (Jim Greenfield) wrote:
> >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote in message
> news:<P5qdnXeMYZv1rgbcRVn-pw@rcn.net>...
> >> In article <3c4afb26.0411151917.46dc0ce8@posting.google.com>,
> >> greenfield_7@hotmail.com (Jim Greenfield) wrote:
> >> >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote in message
> news:<MO6dnfq5qIXuAAXcRVn-iw@rcn.net>...
> >> >> In article <3c4afb26.0411141814.7719122f@posting.google.com>,
> >> >> greenfield_7@hotmail.com (Jim Greenfield) wrote:
> >> >> >alexterrell@yahoo.com (Alex Terrell) wrote in message
> news:<d81e59c9.0411140811.6eabf483@posting.google.com>...
> >> >> >> greenfield_7@hotmail.com (Jim Greenfield) wrote in message
> >> >> news:<3c4afb26.0411041512.6e3f4074@posting.google.com>...
> >> >> <snip>
> >> >> >
>
> >Northwest coast of Australia has tides of 30' charging in and out of
> >narrow deep canyons. The potential for ocean/tidal energy production
> >must be awesome! Nearest demand (city of 1m people) ? ......1500miles
> >away!
> >>
> >> >Either one is going to impact on other ocean use (sailing, fishing,
> >> >transport lanes etc)
> >>
> >> So far, the only arguments here against building those windmills
> >> is aesthetics and NIMBY. The rich on this island aren't thinking
> >> about self-reliance at all.
> >
> >The self reliance on wind comes down to either having a storage system
> >(hydrogen?) for when it doesn't blow, or else a huge grid which takes
> >power from where the wind is, to where it isn't, at any time. This
> >would entail having much greater capacity for generation in the local
> >area, than is necessary.
> >Investment capital in the projects might be unsustainable.
>
> The figure reported on the radio was $70 million (IIRC), which
> seems terribly expensive for providing power to one island.
> One also has to mulitply this figure by Massachusetts' corruption
> factor which seems to vary from 10 to 100...<ahem>before inflation.
>
> >
> >Most of our electricity is gas produced. There is great wailing about
> >the recent hikes in electricity prices since recent privatisation of
> >supply. The major arguement of the principal producers is that their
> >capacity to supply must far exceed demand on most days, to meet peak
> >demand (summer cooling), or supply failures. Unless the investment
> >warrants thousands of these wind farms, they (us) will suffer the same
> >"just in case" power price extortion.
>
> One of the problems in the US is Congress' so-called privitazation.
> What they did was split generation biz from the distribution biz
> plus making it illegal for the two to communicate directly with
> each other.

The govt here in its wisdom (joke) privatised the state own generation
and billing (supply), but not the distribution network. This was in
order to "reduce electricity prices to the consumer, by encouraging
competition between producers." Result; an increase of 100% or so, and
still with the threats of more. Every now and then, a price hike is
"justified" by the price of the gas which runs the turbines, going up.
But guess who owns the gas?
Meanwhile, even with a line passing within a few hundred meters, the
price of electricity connection in the country makes rural building
horrendously expensive- sometimes the value of the building!
> >> >
> >> >I read somewhere that it takes more energy to mine the materials,
> >> >transport, and construct, a solar panel, than will ever be likely to
> >> >have extracted. Do you know anything about that?
> >>
> >> Nothing. When I looked into solar energy I was insterested in
> >> self-reliance during power absence crises. I assumed that I
> >> would be paying for the extra energy used for manufacturing
> >> as a trade-off to access to continuous power.
> >
> >My cousin has that $60,000 solar system in the world's sunniest
> >location.
> >He still has to regularly back it up with the diesel generator (2
> >households).
>
> That's what I figured would happen. There was or is a company
> just north of here who advertised a device that would generate
> electric power off boilers (fueled by oil). I called them up
> and asked if they built these devices for residences. Nope.
> I suggest that they think about doing such a project and
> volunteered to be a field test site. (That way I'd get my
> device even if they decided it wouldn't turn enough profit.)
> Nope.
>
> I looked at the backup generators getting sold in retail.
> Everything has to be automatic. I don't want automatic. I
> want a switch that cuts off external service coming in
> when I turn on my generator. The specs provided on the shelves
> are worthless to me. This may be due to my ignorance but I
> don't think so.
>
> I've been to the fire department, my fuel oil people..and
> somebody else....electricians. Nobody is thinking about
> self-sufficiency in a long-term emergency.

I guess it is a more pressing worry where winter temperatures can kill
with a prolonged power failure. Here we would merely get a bit chilly,
more blankets, and try not to rely on the frige.
Cost of production doesn't seem to be the main criteria for pricing
these days.
On a recent trip to New Zealand, where there huge hydro and geothermal
schemes should logically supply very cheap power, not so! One entity
owns the dam, another the generator, another the distribution net,
still another does the billing......and all on-selling without
actually doing a thing besides shuffle paper!

Regards
jim g

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