Re: Turning Hydrogen into electricity

From: alex (alexterrell_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 12/09/04 

Date: 9 Dec 2004 01:01:32 -0800

Dan Bloomquist wrote:
> Alex Terrell wrote:
> > A recent thread I started discussed the use of nuclear thermal
power
> > to create hydrogen. This could turn nuclear power stations into
> > flexible providers of electricity.
> >
> > Since then, I've read up a little about the status of hydrogen
usage.
> > It seems like hydrogen is not much use as fuel for transportation,
due
> > to its energy density. So what is large scale hydrogen useful for?
>
> To make lighter the enormous reserves of tar and sand oils on the
North
> American continent.
>
> >
> > Can it be burnd in conventional gas turbines to provide
electricity?
>
> Sure, but at a terrible waste of energy.
>
> > Coupling a hydrogen turbine with a nuclear plant and a hydrogen
> > production plant would enable a nuclear power station effectively
to
> > produce electricity in the range of 0-200% of its rated output.
>
> False. Use nuclear to produce electricity. Put a hydrogen vector in
> there and the efficiency goes down quite a bit at a higher cost. It
> makes no sense.
>
Maybe, but let's do some BOTE calculation.

If I have a high temperature nuclear power plant, I can produce
electricity at some 40% efficieny.

Or I can produce Hydrogen at 50%. This hydrogen could be used in a gas
turbine to produce electricity at 60%, giving an overall efficinecy of
30%.

However, I can now sell my 30% efficent electricity during the day, at
more than double the price of my 40% efficient electricity generated at
night.

So at first glance, it makes sense. Of course, the capital costs also
come into it. A 1GW (electrical) output nuclear reactor will cost about
$1.6 billion. A 750MW gas turbine plant will cost about $300 million. I
have no idea about the chemical plant and hyfrogen storage facility,
but maybe a total of $600 million.

So I've increased my capital costs by about 40%. Given capital costs
account for most, but not all of the running costs, my average price of
electricity might rise by some 30%. (3c to 4c per KWHr).

However, I can now sell all my electricity at day time rates, rather
than an average of day and night rates. This MAY be profitable,
depending on the exact nature of the electricity market in question.

> >
> > Can it be used for domestic heating and cooking?
>
> Using hydrogen for stationary applications will never make sense.
>
Using the above figures, if the choice is heating home with nuclear
electricity, or nuclear thermal hydrogen, thermal hydrogen might win
out because of higher efficiency.

> >
> > Is there an established process to "burn" coal in hydrogen to make
> > methane? This produces a fuel which is much more enviromentally
> > friendly than coal, though still with carbon.
>
> It ends up as fuel for a vehicle and will produce the same CO2 as
using
> oil at the auto. Figure in the additional infrastructure, like
cement,
> and you create more CO2.
>
You'd probably run the car on methanol or methane, which emit less CO2
than normal fuel. You also use local / australian coal, which is
plentiful, rather than OPEC oil.
> Best, Dan.
>
Thanks for your thoughts - Alex

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