Re: Can Nuclear Power Deliver?

On 27 Jan 2006 13:03:59 -0800, "LongmuirG" <LongmuirG@xxxxxxx> wrote:

>Alex Terrel misunderstood the statement:
>>> Human beings currently use only 3 major energy sources (fossil, hydro,
>>> nuclear) -- 5 if we split fossil into oil, coal, gas.
>and responded:
>> Or, by 2010, six if you add wind. In some countries, this is more
>> important that oil or hydro for electricity generation.
>
>"currently" vs. "2010" -- notice the difference?
>
>Environmentally-destructive wind energy has of course being promoted by
>the usual suspects for some time. Denmark reportedly is up to about
>20% of their electric supply from wind. However, little Denmark is in
>an unusual position -- when the wind is not blowing (at least 40% of
>the time) they are able to buy Norwegian hydropower, Swedish nuclear
>power, and German coal-fired power as back up. Factor in the costs for
>building back up conventional power plants, and the real economics of

Backup power plants will probably end up being relatively compact
combined cycle types. Reduced run time == much longer interval
between major overhauls.

Costs are not that great... Especially when one is faced with the
environmental cost of burning fossil fuels. That cost is 10 to 100x
greater than the current market cost of those fuels. I.E. Demark
will be submerged if GW continues..


>large-scale wind power become clear. Use it on a large enough scale to
>meet an appreciable fraction of human energy demands, and it will kill
>more than birds. 2010 is going to be an interesting year!

Hmm.. that's an absurd conclusion...

Considering that the thermal gradients& resulting winds will only
increase as GW progresses. Using wind to displace fossil fuels usage
will be a net positive effect for the environment.

As for bird kill... compared to what... Buildings... cars... bridges...
power poles...


some links and quotes..

http://www.windpower.org/en/tour/wres/index.htm

"The sun radiates 174,423,000,000,000 kilowatt hours of energy to the
earth per hour. In other words, the earth receives 1.74 x 10 17 watts
of power . About 1 to 2 per cent of the energy coming from the sun
is converted into wind energy."

http://www.windpower.org/en/tour/env/birds.htm
" Birds and Wind Turbines
Birds often collide with high voltage overhead lines, masts, poles, and
windows of buildings. They are also killed by cars in the traffic.
Birds are seldom bothered by wind turbines, however. Radar studies from
Tjaereborg in the western part of Denmark, where a 2 megawatt wind
turbine with 60 metre rotor diameter is installed, show that birds - by
day or night - tend to change their flight route some 100-200 metres
before the turbine and pass above the turbine at a safe distance. "

" A study from the Danish Ministry of the Environment says that power
lines, including power lines leading to wind farms, are a much greater
danger to birds than the wind turbines themselves.
Some birds get accustomed to wind turbines very quickly, others take a
somewhat longer time. "

http://www.sierraclub.org/policy/conservation/wind_siting.asp
http://www.wind-works.org/articles/scsitingadvisory.html
"Sierra Club Wind Siting Advisory Document"

"The Sierra Club strongly supports the development of substantial wind
resources for electricity generation. "

"The Sierra Club recognizes that all forms of power generation entail
environmental tradeoffs, and that there are drawbacks to wind
development."

"The Sierra Club believes that in most instances many of the negative
impacts of wind can be managed."

"It is critical that we begin now to implement solutions to global
warming."


http://www.nationalwind.org/publications/avian/avian_collisions.pdf
"It has been estimated that from 100 million to well over 1 billion
birds are killed annually in the United States due to collisions with
human-made structures, including vehicles, buildings and windows,
powerlines, communication towers, and wind turbines."

· Vehicles: 60 million - 80 million
· Buildings and Windows: 98 million - 980 million
· Powerlines: tens of thousands - 174 million
· Communication Towers: 4 million - 50 million
· Wind Generation Facilities: 10,000 - 40,000

"Data collected to date indicate an average of 2.19 avian fatalities
per turbine per year in the U.S. for all species combined and 0.033
raptor fatalities per turbine per year. Based on current projections
of 15,000 operational wind turbines in the U.S. by the end of 2001,
the total annual mortality was estimated at approximately 33,000 bird
fatalities per year for all species combined."

Note: Consider the alternatives If we don't harness the wind.

Global warming will result in the die off billions and extinction of
many avian species. Pick your poison..

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Wind Farms Dont Bother Birds
    ... LONDON (Reuters) - Wind turbines do not drive birds from surrounding ...
    (soc.senior.issues)
  • Re: Wind Farms Dont Bother Birds
    ... LONDON - Wind turbines do not drive birds from surrounding areas, ... Republication or redistribution of Thomson Reuters ...
    (soc.senior.issues)
  • Energy Farm
    ... Co. Leases 11,000 Acres for Energy Farm ... Texas has sold a lease for an 11,000-acre tract in the Gulf of Mexico ... that backers believe could become the first wind energy farm along the ... generated by wind turbines located on land, ...
    (soc.retirement)
  • Re: Wind Farms Dont Bother Birds
    ... LONDON - Wind turbines do not drive birds from surrounding areas, ... Republication or redistribution of Thomson Reuters ...
    (soc.senior.issues)
  • 04/11 Stock To Watch -------- BWEN
    ... Broadwind Energy, Inc. provides products and services to the energy and ... precision gears for wind turbines; ...
    (misc.invest.stocks)