Re: Fuel Cells in a Hydrocarbon Economy

Bob Eld wrote:
I'm all for fuel cell research but we must keep in mind that fuel cells have
been in development since 1835. Yes Virginia, 1835 not 1935, that's 171
years! You'd think by now they would have been long ago perfected, but that
is not the case. By contrast look at the progress the internal combustion
engine has enjoyed in far less time than that. Or, look at the gas turbine,
water turbine, steam turbine, jet engine, diesel engine, alkaline batteries,
lithium batteries and on and on. I'm not saying that fuel cells can't make
it, just that there are fundamental problems that have kept them as
scientific curiosities rather than main stream power sources over these many
years. We have been hearing for at least twenty years that I am aware of
that fuel cells are the next best thing and soon will be available for
general use, but we still wait. Yes there are some back up cell power
systems but none of these compete with diesel or gas power for that
application. Now more and more people are going to direct solar with battery
backup eliminating fuel altogether. Given the history and the many forms of
competition, fuel cells have a rough road to hoe. I suspect they are
somewhat of a dark horse to bet on at this late date. I hope I'm wrong.

Bob,

The first steam engine was allegedly made in the 1st century AD by Hero
of Alexandria:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_Engine

However the Watt steam engine, the real deal, was developed in 1765:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watt_steam_engine

So it took some 1600 years for the steam engine to be worthwhile.

Fuel cells are presently still too expensive. Hydrogen storage is
pathetically low density.
Yet there are some interesting things in that horizon, namely the Honda
FCX 2006:
http://world.honda.com/news/2006/4060925FCXConcept/
http://world.honda.com/news/2006/4060108FCX/

- Does 100 mph (not impressive, however in some states it is against
the law to even go that fast).
- Has some 350 miles of range.
- The fuel cell does some 134 hp.
- Claims to have a vehicle energy efficiency of 60%.

Note: The tank stores 5 kg of hydrogen at 5000 PSI. 171 liters.

Some people think you can manufacture hydrogen for $3 a kg.

I still think batteries will win, but hydrogen for transportation has
seemed more fanciful before.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Fuel Cells in a Hydrocarbon Economy
    ... Yes there are some back up cell power ... The first steam engine was allegedly made in the 1st century AD by Hero ... Fuel cells are presently still too expensive. ...
    (sci.energy)
  • Re: LK GEO --- MKTY
    ... Mobile phone fuel cells coming in 2007A fuel cell technology that will ... batteries looks as if its going to be available for millions of people ... methanol with air and water to produce electrical power, ...
    (misc.invest.stocks)
  • Re: Can anything tame the battery flames?
    ... Need for Battery Power Runs Into Basic Hurdles of Science ... Scientists are having trouble creating long-lasting, safe batteries. ... large lithium-ion battery makers in the market for consumer devices. ... Fuel cells use hydrogen, but because ...
    (misc.invest.stocks)
  • Mobile phone fuel cells coming in 2007
    ... Mobile phone fuel cells coming in 2007A fuel cell technology that will ... batteries looks as if its going to be available for millions of people ... methanol with air and water to produce electrical power, ...
    (misc.invest.stocks)
  • Re: Mobile phone fuel cells coming in 2007
    ... technology that will offer a quick fix for dead or dying mobile phone ... batteries looks as if its going to be available for millions of people ... DMFCs (Direct Methanol Fuel Cells), ... methanol with air and water to produce electrical power, ...
    (misc.invest.stocks)