Re: Edwin Black - Internal Combustion

Bob Eld wrote:
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Cut...

Hydrogen is actually a fuel carrier from the past. The hydrogen fuel
cell was invented in about 1838. The first hydrogen bus was in
Australia in 1934. The first hydrogen tractor in US was an
Allis-Chalmers in 1954. First US hydrogen van was made by GM in 1956.
Today's modern German navy operates 5 hydrogen submarines. Hydrogen
buses abound in Scandanvia. Hydrogen is just the fuel carrier of
course. It must cracked or electrolyzed. When it does so in an ICE,
that creates a conventional internal combustion machine. When hydrogen
powers a fuel cell, it creates an electric car. I wonder if you have
ever driven a hydrogen car.

Have you spoken to any the many scientsists who are working on
bacterial hydrogen. Craig Venter, mapper of the Human Genome is one of
them. Pls see
http://www.venterinstitute.org/press/news/news_2004_09_29.php. Also see
pls
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/04/26/bacteria_hydrogen_production/
or google "hydrogen bacteria."
cut....

Yes, I am well aware of hydrogen's history and view it as one of the many
negatives. For example the fuel cell was invented 170 years ago, as you
point out, yet it is still not developed as a commercial success. Why is
that? Could it be that it really isn't very viable or competitive and that
at every step along the way there have been superior alternatives? Look at
the development of virtually every other motive device since then by
comparison. All of these things developed in the 1930's through the '50's
that you mention also illustrates hydrogen's short comings. If these things
were actual viable machines and not experimental tinker-toys, at least some
of them would have long ago become commercial successes, but that is not the
case. For over 100 years refined petroleum products have fueled our society.
As we move away from petroleum, it is convienient, high energy dense liquids
like ethanol and bio-oils that will lead the way. Hydrogen is a dark horse
for many reasons the most significant is it's pittifully poor volumetric
energy density requiring high pressure compression or energy wasteful
liquification to even be considered. By contrast competing fuels can safely
be carried in tin cans. That alone dooms hydrogen. Futhermore a simple
analysis shows that it requires five times the infrastructure in terms of
tanks, pipe lines, trucks, compressors, and the rest to handle, move and
store hydrogen as it does convienient liquid fuels. How are you going to
compete with that and who will pay for it? Believe what you want but the
market will decide.

Honda's FCX-based Home Energy Station, GM's Sequel-based Home Energy
Statiion, bacterial-generated hydrogen and many other form of
distributed generation require no hydrogen infrastructure.
Infrastructure is the big lie of alt fuel.

Hydrogen has not been developed over the decades for the same reason
that electric was subsumed by petroleum interests. I suggest if you
want to know the real details, you read Internal Combustion for energy
history and future, Banking on Baghdad for the history of oil and
petropolitics. Try http://www.internalcombustionbook.com/
or http://www.bankingonbaghdad.com.

Hydrogen is hardly the only answer. It is one of many that weave in and
out of efficiency questions, brown and green generation, the
transportation sector, non-transport petroleum use, joules in joules
out, and rational discussion of economics and soc-alled efficiency. All
of the aforementioned must be filtered through petropolitics and
petroterrorism. Truly, it is too complex to glibly ratiocinate in a
snip and snap blog. A conversation would be helpful but that is not
possible. Unfortunately.

.

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