Re: H2-PV Makes the Right Kind of Economic Chaos

On Jan 28, 10:19 am, "R.H. Allen" <kka...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
bill wrote:

The pv casting furnace is the heart of a pv plant *after* you have
99.9999% pure silicone, which is obtained from a vapor deposition
process which is painfully slow and energy intensive. All of your
other stupidity is predicated on that particular false statement. You
cannot acid wash sand, melt it and cast it and have pv grade wafers,
what you'll have will be beer bottles, roughly 98% pure. You have to
acid wash the sand, then run it through your casting process, THEN run
it through the seimens process to get the 99.999% purity that is
required for polycrystaline pv cells.

There *are* other processes for producing PV-grade silicon that don't
involve the Siemens process, which I think is the basis for his point.
However, while many of them produce cheaper silicon in principle, almost
all of them have been either so slow, unscalable, or produce silicon of
such low quality that when it come down to finished PV modules they
don't produce the promised cost savings. Besides which, slicing the
silicon into wafers costs more than producing the ingot in the first
place, even at today's inflated silicon feedstock prices. If he really
wants to cut silicon wafer costs, that's the place to focus.

For what it's worth, the first real mass production of PV-grade silicon
is beginning this year. As I recall, it uses a fluidized bed process in
place of the Siemens process (though I could be mistaken).


His point is that anything industry is doing is greed motivated
and therefore inefficient and wasteful. He is wrong about that. If
he were to think things through enough to realize that the PV plant
that uses the most efficient process will have a competitive advantage
and thus make more money than the other companies in the business he'd
understand why it is that no one takes him seriously when he starts
prattling about 30 cent/square foot PV panels. he's obviously someone
who'se never been NEAR a production floor and has no understanding of
the measures companies go to to save 1% on production costs. I
understand that there are ways other than the seimens process that can
produce the required purity, however none of them will be comparable
in price to the original cost of the freaking sand, that's something
anyone with any brains at all can see. frankly, his positions only
make sense for an academic, I suspect he's a masters student at
michael rodent university.
I'd be interested in seeing what improvements can be made to the
precision wiresawing process. I'd personally be inclined to wonder
why it was necessary to cast an ingot and saw it when it is possible
to cast the wafer directly, even if it involves more buffing and
cleaning. however, I unlike nimrods R us, truly believe that the guys
responsible for the pv factories know more about it than I do.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: H2-PV Makes the Right Kind of Economic Chaos
    ... cannot acid wash sand, melt it and cast it and have pv grade wafers, ... However, while many of them produce cheaper silicon in principle, almost ... wants to cut silicon wafer costs, ... offset by the higher capital costs of their production methods. ...
    (sci.energy)
  • Re: Cheap Microcontrollers
    ... I NEVER give the price of silicon. ... and another that costs $0.50 in-stock Qty=1K doesn't give you any ...
    (comp.arch.embedded)
  • Re: PV solar design example
    ... "Purifying and crystallizing the silicon are the most energy- ... do a "big picture" comparison between energy production techniques: ... I believe that most people are in agreement that if somehow all existing cars ...
    (sci.electronics.design)
  • Re: H2-PV Makes the Right Kind of Economic Chaos
    ... cannot acid wash sand, melt it and cast it and have pv grade wafers, ... However, while many of them produce cheaper silicon in principle, almost ... The folks who make the saws seem focused on reducing the diameter of the wire while also increasing its speed, which would translate to faster cutting with less loss of silicon. ... the savings in wasted silicon that companies like Evergreen and Schott Solar realize by producing wafers directly are offset by the higher capital costs of their production methods. ...
    (sci.energy)
  • Re: solar cells toxic
    ... >> chemicals such as silane, ... >...even solar. ... It's worth noting that the toxins used in producing silicon solar cells ... had little control over the means of production. ...
    (sci.energy)