Re: US gasoline: ridiculously cheap

On May 26, 12:18 pm, xnich...@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
On 26 May, 16:42, William Mook <william.m...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Moving faster means that you can go farther in a given
amount of time and cover more area. Covering more area in a given
amount of time means there are more opportunities more combinations
and permutations possible than when you're 'stuck' in a smaller
region. So, there is a natural propensity for people to move farther
and faster if they can afford it.

In many situations, it's debatable whether cars do allow you to move
faster.
I used to commute into central London for 5 years and I tried every
permutation: Car, Overland rail and Tube.
Using a car was NEVER as fast as taking the Tube.
It's also not as fast as using inter-city rail between cities.

Bear in mind also that several European countries, such as Italy and
Germany have a higher per capita car ownership than the US, yet
gasoline prices
of Germany $7.08 and Italy $6.73 compared to the US figure of $3.28
that you and your mates are whining about.

Like I don't drive all over the EC even though I could do.
Because of the cost of fuel no doubt. Yet, if the cost of fuel were
$1 per barrel, you might consider getting a commercial version of a
Harrier Jump Jet and having lunch in Paris and Dinner in Berlin before
flying home to a new property development in Morocco..

I've driven to Belgium, France, Germany and Switzerland by boat/car
before and never thought about the cost of fuel (whatever it was at
the time, it was certainly higher than in the US) If I want to stop
along the way and spend a day or two doing it, a car's fine.
Going to Italy, Greece or further afield I'd use a train or plane.
Not into property development in Morroco, or anywhere else.

the major differences in price are due to tax rates and
EC tax rates are higher because fuel sales are less per person.

I doubt it, more like because of the existence of Social Democratic
governments and higher public expenditure.

Nonsense. The US doesn't need to tax fuel at rates the EC does
because usage is high enough to sustain all the costs associated with
roads and soforth, at the lower tax rates.

Since France pays for many of its Autoroutes by toll charging and
since many roads in the UK aren't maintained by central government,
that seems like a very simplistic explanation. It's also the case
that there are alternative ways of raising revenue, such as road tax
based on miles travelled, already being proposed in the UK, not to
mention Congestion Charging, already implemented in London and being
considered by New York.

New York already charges that.
Since it's only the moron city in the world that
charges you Woody Allen taxes for every
moron car, plane, buidling, song, restraunt,
road, book, cup of coffee, TV Show, telephone, or hat they produce.





It's low price encourages the status quo: fuel-inefficient vehicles,
overuse of cars etc...
What is a fuel efficient vehicle? What is overuse of cars? This is a
silppery slope that pays no good dividends. The answer to shortages
is to create a technology where the shortages disappear.

Actually, that's a statement I don't really disagree with, except I'm
talking about real needs and not plutocratic excess like flying to
Monaco for lunch.
There is a real need for cheap transport and a real need for low CO2
vehicles.
Much of this can be met by developing electric and hybrid vehicles and
by introducing free public transport to relieve congestion and
pollution in cities.

You mean that if you have to do higher mileages you should be charged
less?

I mean that if I burn 700 gallons per year and you burn 100 gallons
per year and we both need the same amount of roadway and we decide to
pay for that roadway with taxes on fuel sold, then you will have to
pay 7x as much per gallon since you consume 1/7th as much - to raise
the same amount of money per person.

A mileage based road tax would make the basic gasoline price cheaper,
but encourage less uncessary use of the automobile.

Alternatively, more fuel efficient vehicles would mean you payed less
even if the tax rate was closer together.

Stuff below is interesting enough. Yes unlimited energy could make
all transport virtually free, but your ideas are all based on complete
market de-regulation.
It's the neo-liberal myth of "negative freedom". In the end it leads
to interpersonal, economic and environmental chaos writ large.
It has to be brough under conscious control



Reduce the regulation of automotive manufacture that restricts the
range of possibilities in the market and you will have this. Reduce
the regulations that restrict who may provide transport for hire and
taxi fares will be virtually free. Reduce the regulations that
restrict how vehicles may be controlled to provide automated systems
of guidance, and vehicles will be very cheap indeed.
It amazes me that governments will spend billions to devise a warhead
that can reliably be delivered across the world to a specific point in
minutes to hours, and then say nothing can be done to guide a vehicle
from one side of a town to another automatically.

Consider a nuclear power plant producing electricity at $0.10 per
kWh. Now consider a roadway that uses the same sort of technology
that charges your electric toothbrush built into it. Now imagine
there are electric vehicles with no gas tanks that are built to pick
up this power and move the car around. Imagine the vehicle has
regenerative braking that puts power back into the roadway when it
stops. The vehicle is lightweight, reliable and safe. Imagine the
vehicle is fully automatic and safe and the fleet of vehicles can
operate with your cell phone's GPS system. So, all you've gotta do is
call it and one comes right to you with you name marqueed across the
windows...

Now, because its not hauling an engine around, and its not hauling
fuel around, and its a little more efficient than a regular car due to
regenerative braking, and its a little more efficient than a regular
car because its professionally (via computer) driven - let's say it
gets 80 mpg equivalent - and has the same performance as a typical
car. Range is of course, unlimited - because power comes from the
roadway.

Now, the electricity driving the car we said was $0.10 per kWh. Now,
there are 120 MJ in a gallon of gas - and 3.6 MJ in a kWh. So, this
is equivalent to $3.33 per gallon of gas prices. But because of
improved efficiency, we're down to about $1.66 per gallon - assuming
40 mpg is standard for that car.

Now, without a driver, and fully automated, this car could be owned by
the passenger the same way a private jet is owned by a Net Jet
operator. Fractional ownership. Say each of these vehicles cost
$20,000 (half the price of a JDAM upgrade) - and say that one vehicle
could easily service 7 people. That's $2857 per person. Vehicles are
in service say 7 years - so that with financing is $35 per month.
That's your monthly fee.

At 80 mpg - that's .2.4 miles per kWh - so at $0.10 per kWh, you pay
only $1.00 for every 24 miles travelled. Maintenance of an all
electric vehicle, is known, using golf cart and similar vehicles, and
separating out the battery costs - but then adding them back in again
to account for road costs - annual maintenance and service costs are
likely to be 5% of the fixed capital cost of the vehicle - so that's
another $10 per month.

So, I can imagine that a person would join a CARNET program that
covers a service area of powered roadways. You join by paying $65 per
month, and you get 480 miles each month free. After that you are
charged $1 per ride, and $0.04 per mile for any ride exceeding 24
miles - you are legally 1/7th owner of car, and you can carry up to 5
non paying passengers and so many pounds of luggage each trip.

If your vehicle is not available another vehicle in the CARNET network
will be substituted. The monthly payment includes vehicle service amd
maintenance and operation all of which are provided by CARNET Services
Corp.

You access the network by your cell phone as mentioned earlier. You
can depreciate your ownership interest in your vehicle, and the
vehicle if sold at the end of the lease period will return revenues to
you and the other owners.

It's inescapable: Any future US government that wants to avert an
international environmental disaster will have to increase gasoline
prices and tax the superprofits of the oil companies to pay for the
60% reduction in US CO2 emissions required. Clearly, that's not a
course that the present one is prepared to take.

Low cost solar panels located in the US West and Southwest generate
hydrogen gas by electrolysis when the sun shines at a cost of $170 per
ton. This hydrogen is distributed across the US by the National
Hydrogen Pipeline. Major users are coal fired power plants and
metallurgical coal users. The power plants burn hydrogen gas, each
ton of which has the same heating value as 6.2 tons of coal.
Metallurgical coal users switch to hydrogen as a reducing agent to
smelt ores - producing H2O rather than CO2. In this use 1 ton of
hydrgoen replaces over 3 tons of coal.

The US burns 20 million barrels of liquid fuels each day. 865,000
tons of hydrogen gas has the same heating value as this much oil.
Converting conventional automobiles to hydrogen fuel, by replacing the
gasoline engine with a high pressure hydrogen tank - allows all cars
now on the road to switch to hydrogen. The emerging hydrogen retailer
offers to make the swtich while at the same time offering a credit
against hydrogen purchases with discounts equal to the cost of the
conversion.

At 700 bar or 10,000 psi 30 kg of hydrogen can be stored in a cubic
meter of space. A gallon of gas contains 120 MJ. 865 grams of
hydrogen have this same heat value - which at this pressure occupy
1/35th of a cubic meter. 1 gallong occupies 1/263rd cubic meter - so
relatively speaking the hydrogen takes 7x the volume to store the same
energy. But,

...

read more »- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Burlington gets regions first hydrogen station
    ... the unveiling of the city's newest green vehicle. ... production plant at Burlington Electric Department on Pine Street, ... coordinators then demonstrated the new pump, topping off the car's fuel ... The car will be used as a pilot vehicle by the Department of Public ...
    (misc.invest.stocks)
  • Re: The Drive-a-Toyota Act
    ... take into consideration the total cost of acquiring a vehicle, insuring, ... replacement cost for another new vehicle. ... Assume two buyers buy exactly the same $25,000 car. ... old Toyotas are worth about half their original purchase price). ...
    (alt.autos.toyota)
  • Re: Road Rage
    ... they have decided that if you park your car on the street ... the annual permit will increase with your Vehicle Excise ... and any parking tax you can avoid by driving to ... of the amount or type of fuel it burns. ...
    (uk.rec.cycling)
  • Re: US gasoline: ridiculously cheap
    ... Using a car was NEVER as fast as taking the Tube. ... Imagine the vehicle has ... there are 120 MJ in a gallon of gas - and 3.6 MJ in a kWh. ... Say each of these vehicles cost ...
    (sci.energy)
  • Re: US gasoline: ridiculously cheap
    ... countries might have something to do with the amount of fuel consumeed ... Because of the cost of fuel no doubt. ... What is a fuel efficient vehicle? ... up this power and move the car around. ...
    (sci.energy)