Re: Wind-fuelled 'supergrid' offers clean power to Europe

On 25 Nov, 19:21, Growl <grow...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Nov 25, 3:09 am, xnich...@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

5,000-mile network could cut entire continent's carbon output by a
quarter
By Paul Rodgers
Published: 25 November 2007

"An audacious proposal to build a 5,000-mile electricity supergrid,
stretching from Siberia to Morocco and Egypt to Iceland, would slash
Europe's CO2 emissions by a quarter, scientists say.
The scheme would make the use of renewable energy, particularly wind
power, so reliable and cheap that it would replace fossil fuels on an
unprecedented scale, serving 1.1 billion people in 50 countries.
Europe's 1.25bn tons of annual CO2 output from electricity generation
would be wiped out. High-voltage direct current (HVDC) lines, up to
100 times as long as the alternating current (AC) cables carried by

100 times as long? Not unless they use superconducting cables.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HVDC and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HVDC_projects

The longest existing HVDC line seems to be 1700 km., The biggest are
about 3GW. (Three Gorges dam)


the National Grid's pylons, would form the system's main arteries.
While AC lines are the international standard, they leak energy. HVDC
lines are three times as efficient, making them cost effective over
distances above 50 miles.

50 miles? More like 200. Even more if the cost of DC transformers
(i.e., inverters) are included.

Unless you need to put the cable underwater.

Power line losses are from cable resistance and corona. Resistive
losses are essentially the same fro DC as AC. Above 250,000 volts,
corona losses dominate. AC losses are higher then DC. Probably on the
order of 20%. but I am not sure.

Building the supergrid would require an investment of ¿$80bn (£40bn),

Is this 80 billion American or European? A very large difference. In
any event, it is a marketing WAG, not associated with the actual cost.

plus the cost of the wind turbines - a fraction of the EURO 1 trillion the
EU expects to pay for a 20 per cent reduction of its carbon footprint
by 2020. The average price of the electricity generated would be just
4.6 euro cents per kWh, competitive with today's rates, which are
likely to rise as fossil fuels run out."

http://environment.independent.co.uk/climate_change/article3194088.ece

This project seems to be massive overkill. A multi GW line from
Norway, Orkney, Channel, Biscay, Madrid, Gibralter, Morocco could help
shift GW of power from renewables, and link it in with Norwegian hydro
reserves.

That said, a 1700km Iceland to Germany line has been evaluated and
found not economic. It should be ahead of the above line in terms of
priorities.

How would extracting this much energy affect the weather patterns?

Over such an area, not at all. For wind, you can take out about 10MW
per km2 with negligible effect.

A
slight shift in the Jet Stream could change the location where the
windmills should be constructed. It could also alter agriculture
production.

.