Re: Some Basics on AGW



Sevenhundred Elves wrote:
Fred Weiss wrote:

On Jan 1, 7:59 pm, tg <tgdenn...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

But your biggest failure is that you don't explain why we should want
the population to keep growing.

Because it increases the size and diversity of markets and the labor
pool.

So there will be more people to make stuff but also more people to
consume stuff. How does that mean that there will be more stuff Per
Capita than there is today?

So long as the incentives are present, i.e. profits, and people are
free to pursue them with little (or preferably no) gov't restraint,
there will always be more stuff. Why? Because people's wants are
unlimited. I bet you didn't know 10 years ago you'd want a DVD player
and a thin screen HDTV. (Or, if not that, think of what you enjoy). I
didn't know I'd want TIVO. How could I? It didn't even exist yet.

More people will also pollute more, and use up more of the natural resources.

In the advanced industrial countries people are "polluting" less. Huge
sums are being spent on processing, even recycling, in some cases even
"mining", our waste and the byproducts of industry. That technology
will only improve and become even more cost effective in the years to
come.

As for "natural resources", the supply on earth is vast, so vast that
it will be 100's of years at minimum before we have to be concerned
about running out - and then who knows what knowledge and technology
we will have. Just leave the path clear - that's essential - and man
will take of himself just fine. We are a very adaptable and
intelligent species.

It thus makes possible mass production - and often even of niche or
relatively niche products.

But we already have these things in abundance.

The result is more goods, a greater variety of goods, and much lower
prices.

We already have lots of goods in great variety.

Not enough, never enough. We will always want more, as soon as we
become aware that it exists for us to want it and that it is within
our grasp to obtain it.

Did you know 10 years ago you'd want an iPod or a cell phone?

But where did the lower
prices come from in that equation? Things made from plastic or aluminium
or anything that takes lots of energy to make will become more expensive
as energy grows more expensive. Even food will get more expensive, since
its production is so dependent on oil.

First, energy hasn't gotten more expensive so far (in inflation
adjusted dollars), so why should it in the future? And, second, energy
is a relatively small and continually lower percent cost even in "high
energy use" industries. Precisely because of the cost, the incentive
is present to use it more efficiently.

Then there's new technology which, for some reason, doesn't figure in
the thinking among some of you here. You assume that what is is all
there will be, ever. For example:

http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/next-energy-news-toshiba-micro-nuclear-12.17b.html

Who knew?
..
Have you factored nano-technology into your thinking at all, and its
possible implications? I doubt it.

I don't like Malthus either, but I think he was right nonetheless. It's
logic, and I like logic. He said that if population grows at a higher
ratio than food production, then, eventually, there will not be enough
food for everyone, and because of that, people will starve. That's a
simple mathematical fact, and it can't be argued with.

So the logical thing to do is to never allow the population growth ratio
exceed the growth ratio of the production of food and other necessary
goods.

Huh? It doesn't seem to matter to you in the least that population has
exploded in the last 100 or so years and that we've had no difficulty
producing all the food we need - and then some. In fact so much that
in advanced industrial companies the major health concern is: obesity.
We've been exporting heart disease for 20-30 yrs. or more as a larger
variety and amount of food becomes available to people who previously
had fairly skimpy and limited diets. Not that the Chinese or Japanese
are complaining as they line up outside McDonald's or KFC, but I'm
just saying.

Look at the facts, man.

Fred Weiss
.

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