Re: Methanol -- back to the future

On May 28, 1:38 pm, Stephen Sprunk <step...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Uncle Ben wrote:
Today, methanol is dismissed as too dangerous to use.  It is quite
toxic to humans, causing symptoms like blindness and further, multiple
sclerosis, and death.  It burns with an almost invisible flame, which
is quite dangerous. Consider the liability problem!

But these problems were solved a decade ago.  Just make M85 to
discourage drinkers and make the flame visible. Make dispensers that
won't go in the wrong places. Etc.

Consider the virtues:  In Central America, where natural gas was
cheap, they made methanol for $0.25 per gallon in the 1990's.  It is
no longer that cheap, but still it can be made quite inexpensively,
compared to corn-fed ethanol. You can make methanol easily from
sawdust, much less switch-grass.  You can make it from old newspapers
or from garbage dumps.

Pure ethanol is considered too dangerous for the same reasons as pure
methanol.  Most of the problems go away, though, when mixed with
gasoline to give E85 or M85.  IIRC, the changes to a typical car to take
either are relatively minor if done at the factory (but illegal if done
aftermarket, thanks to the EPA), and should allow either to be used in
practice, which means the market could sort out which was cheaper to
mass produce in any given month.

I don't know if a non-flex-fuel car can take M10/M15, though; all can
take at least E10 and pumps in many places are up to E15 today.  Also,
ethanol has better energy density than methanol due to longer carbon
chains, which means methanol-mixed fuels will have worse mileage than
ethanol-mixed ones.  The methanol's price needs to be substantially
lower than ethanol (or gasoline, which is denser yet) for people to
tolerate worse performance.

S- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks. And I did find via Google about other advantages of DMF,
including greater energy density.

I'm running E85 right now on a converted 1999 Subaru OBW, without fear
of the EPA police. The EPA has granted approval of the FFI line of
converters in OBD2-using cars. They simply stretch the electrical
pulse sent to the fuel injectors to give the car's computer the extra
range in mixture and timing to achieve stochiometric combustion.

I'm a little puzzled by the search for energy density within certain
practical limits. Any thinking person would rank mpd higher than mpg
as a goal. I am getting 15% higher mpd (miles per dollar) in spite of
15% less mpg, and am happy to fill up a little more often when
necessary. After all, Indy cars used to run on methanol; only this
year did they all switch to ethanol -- maybe to reduce the number of
pit stops required.
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Methanol -- back to the future
    ... It burns with an almost invisible flame, ... they made methanol for $0.25 per gallon in the 1990's. ... Pure ethanol is considered too dangerous for the same reasons as pure methanol. ... IIRC, the changes to a typical car to take either are relatively minor if done at the factory, and should allow either to be used in practice, which means the market could sort out which was cheaper to mass produce in any given month. ...
    (sci.energy)
  • Re: Nothing like oil?
    ... Set next to ethanol, as I said, and you quoted: ... That doesn't stop people pining for its energy density. ... It is honestly less toxic than gasoline and not a carcinogen. ... that for methanol. ...
    (rec.arts.sf.written)
  • Re: Nothing like oil?
    ... Set next to ethanol, as I said, and you quoted: ... That doesn't stop people pining for its energy density. ... It is honestly less toxic than gasoline and not a carcinogen. ... that for methanol. ...
    (rec.arts.sf.written)
  • Re: Imagine: 500 Miles Per Gallon
    ... ethanol or methanol, and you get between 400 and 500 miles per gallon ... methanol are much cheaper than gasoline, so fuel costs would drop ... It will take a huge increase in fuel costs for the average Joe to make ...
    (sci.electronics.design)
  • Re: Bioethanol water mix (e.g. overproof Rum or vodka e.g. Stroh 80) as an engine fuel?
    ... catalytic action to keep the glow plug lit, ... model aircraft engine from OS that runs on a pure ethanol and oil mix. ... You can get denatured alcohol which is 85% ethanol and 15% methanol. ...
    (rec.models.rc.air)