Re: Possible energy invention by James M Driscoll aka Spaceman?

"Sevenhundred Elves" <sevenhundred@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:e4i344d65glggbpvsm4gdmqfle5739ip2n@xxxxxxxxxx
On Sat, 31 May 2008 13:47:25 -0400, "Spaceman"
<spaceman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

"Sevenhundred Elves" <sevenhundred@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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I see exactly what you mean, but I'm sorry to say that it won't work.
What drives the motion of the water is the difference between the
forces at work at the connecting tube. These forces are determined by
the height of water in the both containers. Once the water in both
containers reach the same level, the forces will be equal. When the
forces are equal, they nullify each other, and the flow just stops.


I suggest you read it all again,

That won't be necessary. The reason I didn't adress the generator
system is that I wanted to answer your follow-up question about it, (I
naturally expected such a question) rather than adressing all the
pertinent points at the same time. This way I'll be able to ascertain
that you thoroughly understand my comments so they aren't wasted.

I know the water would stop when level.
It won't stopp though because simply..
The floating masses are connected to generators
(one creating energy going up while another creating while going down)
and will be producing power (along with the crosspipe generator)
to harness enough power to do the rest of the water pumping to allow
the thing to then reverse itself

Since this is sci.energy, we'll talk about the energy of the system.
The potential energy of a body, the energy you can get from a body by
lowering it, or the work you must apply to a body in order to lift it,
is g*m*h, where g is the acceleration of gravity, 9.81 m/s^2, m is the
mass of the body in kilograms, and h is the height you lift or lower
the body in meters.

Now suppose you start with an empty cylindrical container, like a
beaker, and you fill it with m kilograms of water to the height h. The
energy that takes is m*g*h/2. Why divide by two? Why isn't it m*g*h?
Because you don't raise ALL the water to level h! Some of it remains
at the bottom of the container, some of it goes all the way to the
top. We divide the height by two to get the total energy, which in
this case (with the cylindrical container) can be calculated as if all
the water was raised to the middle of the container.

m*g*h/2 This is all the energy the cylinder contains when full of
water, and this is all the energy you can get out of it by emptying
it.

However, you don't plan to empty it completely, because in your scheme
there is a SECOND container that you will fill with what's going out
of the first. Thus, if things are allowed to run their natural course,
you won't completely empty the first container, you'll only half-empty
it. So the total energy you may get out of this is half of the
m*g*h/2, which is m*g*h/4.

NOW we get to talk about your generator and pump. It doesn't matter
what it really is, as long as it somehow manages to collect the energy
from the water in the first container and use that energy to pump the
second container full once the water stops flowing.

How much energy does it take to pump that second container full from
being half-empty? Big surprise, it takes exactly as much energy as you
can get from emptying the first container from full to half-empty.
(Not a big surprise, really, because, as you can see, the formula
m*g*h/4 applies in both cases)

So, in theory, you'd then have two containers, forever pumping water
into each other, sometimes filling one, sometimes the other. It would
be quite an entertaining toy, but unfortunately, in practice, every
kind of pump and every kind of generator while converting kinetic
energy to electrical energy or the other way around, also converts
some of the input energy into heat. (Here's a tip: Type "entropy" into
Google, and see what you'll find!) This means that after a while, all
the energy that was in the water, m*g*h/4, wil be used up, it will be
turned into heat, which is also a kind of energy, and the so the
filling and emptying of the containers will stop.

Lets make it much better than,
1- 12 volt fuel pump
1- car battery
10- alternators spinning like crazy as the floating device moves up and
down.
(the wonders of rack and pinion and gearing smarties!)
10 alternators charging a battery to all run a fuel pump at once.
That would not keep that fuel pump going until it broke?
I think it would.
I am going to have to make a small version to see as soon as I can,
otherwise, other people can make it if they want.
If you don't want to try, don't.
I could care less about your inability to know
where extra power can be found and used.

--
James M Driscoll Jr
Spaceman



.

Relevant Pages

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