Re: MPG vs MPD with Ethanol

Rob Dekker wrote:
"DB" <abc@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:Hii1k.14491$oA1.12623@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Bob Eld wrote:
"Uncle Ben" <ben@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:ceafa1b8-18d4-449d-a1ee-b31aba013ce7@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I am continually amazed at the small minds that cannot get over their
obsession with the reduced miles/gallon of ethanol.

With my converted 1999 Subaru, I get 21 MPG with 105-octane E85 at a
cost of $3.00 per gallon. That's 14 cents/mile.

With the same car, I get 25 MPG with 87-octane gasoline at a cost of
$4.20 per gallon. That's 17 cents/mile.

Now class, think hard: Which is the cheaper way to go?

Add to this the fun I'm having driving a car that now with high octane
and a modern engine control unit with automatic fuel trim has greater
torque and greater horsepower. This part comes free.

The corrosion argument against ethanol is bogus unless you are driving
an antique car.

Uncle Ben
Yep... There's already a price differential and that difference will do
nothing but grow. Ethanol has the capacity to be stable in price unless it
is dumped into the world oil market. Not so with gasoline. It goes up faster
than they can change the pumps and will continue to do so.
<http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ethanol+subsidies&btnG=Google+Search>
google: ethanol subsidies

Enjoy it while the taxpayers support you.

Even without subsidies, ethanol (even from corn) would be profitable, if ethanol was at a level plainfield, in a free market, with gasoline.

Nice claim.

But it's not. Otherwise ethanol would not be $ 1 cheaper per gallon than gasoline (as it currently is).

Boggle.


~~~~~~~

6.5 billion gallons in 2007.

Which covers 5 % of the gasoline market...
ERoEI 1.3 so net 1.5 billion gallons.
http://www.energybulletin.net/14849.html

That is comparing apples and oranges (oil and natural gas).
Ethanol's 'low' ERoEI is there because we think it is currently cheaper to fire the distiller columns with natural gas (rather than using biomass), and make fertilizer from natural gas (rather than using cow droppings as they do anywhere else in the world). Once nat gas prices go up further, we can switch to biomass burning and get 1:8 ERoEI, like the Brazilians do.

Last, like I said, cite. First, welcome to the real world.....

A tenth of a quad. The world demands 175 quads/year in liquid fuels.

We don't need to provide the world with 175 quads/year today.

Really! What a novel idea! So let us just hold hands and sing Kumbaya.

And also, we do not need to fix every countries' problems. Let's start with the US.

Really! So we don't, as a world, hold hands!

We just need to compensate for the loss in oil supply (3 % annual decline), while we convert our vehicles to run more efficient (and towards electricity).

You must have missed the Hirsch report.

Like whistling through the graveyard.

http://lakeweb.blogspot.com/

Only if you assume that the US will not change their self-imposed oil addiction (which you might be right in actually).

Numbers, human nature. We are stuck with it until further notice...
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: MPG vs MPD with Ethanol
    ... cost of $3.00 per gallon. ... That's 14 cents/mile. ... Add to this the fun I'm having driving a car that now with high octane ... The corrosion argument against ethanol is bogus unless you are driving ...
    (sci.energy)
  • Re: MPG vs MPD with Ethanol
    ... That's 14 cents/mile. ... Add to this the fun I'm having driving a car that now with high octane ... The corrosion argument against ethanol is bogus unless you are driving ... A tenth of a quad. ...
    (sci.energy)
  • MPG vs MPD with Ethanol
    ... cost of $3.00 per gallon. ... Add to this the fun I'm having driving a car that now with high octane ... The corrosion argument against ethanol is bogus unless you are driving ...
    (sci.energy)
  • Re: MPG vs MPD with Ethanol
    ... That's 14 cents/mile. ... Add to this the fun I'm having driving a car that now with high octane ... The corrosion argument against ethanol is bogus unless you are driving ... Not so with gasoline. ...
    (sci.energy)
  • Re: Energy Cost of Ethanol
    ... If you Google on 'energy from ethanol' you'll get a lot of data. ... viable farmland as it raised the price of groceries. ... is a choice of a car that can only run on gasoline, ...
    (sci.physics)
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