Re: MPG vs MPD with Ethanol

"DB" <abc@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:wny1k.21486$mM.562@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Rob Dekker wrote:

You are welcome. With ethanol at $2.33 and gasoline RBOB at $ 3.31 the difference is double the ethanol credit (or 45ct/gallon).

first google hit:
http://zfacts.com/p/63.html

Where did you get your numbers?

I don't know where these guys get their numbers. Only the 51ct/gallon blenders credit (scheduled to be reduced) is a direct ethanol
subsidy, although that goes to the oil companies (not ethanol producers) !!

It's supposed to increase incentive by blenders to mix in ethanol.
But it seems that blenders (oil companies) figured out that by collectively NOT blending in more ethanol, they keep the ethanol
price low. So they make extra profit : first from the price spread ($1/gallon) and then they get an additional 51 cts credit from
the government. End result is that ethanol is not used as much as it could, end-user pays more, and profits + credit go to oil
companies. Great system huh ?

For the other numbers mentioned :
Any corn subsidy goes to all corn producers (farmers), regardless of where the corn goes.
And I don't understand the $3.6 'extra payed at the pump'. What is that and who receives it ?


I'd say, let the market do it's work. Let the mixers mix in more ethanol !
Every little bit helps (at least to keep the price from spiraling out of control).

In a year oil has doubled to $120/bl. Little bit might be 20 cents. It is not fixing anything.

Cite for what ?

Brazilian ERoEI is 8. I've searched a lot in the past. Gross, they produced four tenths of a quad in 2007. All that infrastructure
to produce what a small oil discovery would. Doesn't put a dent in the decline just at Cantarell.

You must have missed the Hirsch report.

I did not. But did not read it all.
Fill me in : did they predict more than 3% annual decline ?

'They' would be cites in the paper. In ten years it could be much steeper than that.

Like whistling through the graveyard.

http://lakeweb.blogspot.com/

Only if you assume that the US will not change their self-imposed oil addiction (which you might be right in actually).

Numbers, human nature. We are stuck with it until further notice...

Yes. Until we start using less of the stuff.
And we will. Either by more fuel-efficient vehicles, or by ruining our economy.
We still have a choice. But not for long.

The numbers say we should have started fixing this decades ago. It will be too little too late from here.


.

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