Re: MPG vs MPD with Ethanol

Rob Dekker wrote:
"DB" <abc@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:z6D1k.2552$fc.1654@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Rob Dekker wrote:
"DB" <abc@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:wny1k.21486$mM.562@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Rob Dekker wrote:
You are welcome. With ethanol at $2.33 and gasoline RBOB at $ 3.31 the difference is double the ethanol credit (or 45ct/gallon).
first google hit:
http://zfacts.com/p/63.html

Where did you get your numbers?
I don't know where these guys get their numbers. Only the 51ct/gallon blenders credit (scheduled to be reduced) is a direct ethanol subsidy.
Just one.

, although that goes to the oil companies (not ethanol producers) !!
Not relevant.

It's supposed to increase incentive by blenders to mix in ethanol.
But it seems that blenders (oil companies) figured out that by collectively NOT blending in more ethanol, they keep the ethanol price low. So they make extra profit : first from the price spread ($1/gallon) and then they get an additional 51 cts credit from the government.
Cite?

No cite. This is my theory.

Really!?

Do you have any other theory to explain that wholesale ethanol is $2.30 now (yep it went down again) and wholesale gasoline RBOB is $3.30 ?

I don't theorize without bases, I do research and crunch numbers. This is not alt.energy.

At that $2.30 * 125e3 btu / 85e3btu makes it $3.38. So, it is still not cheaper, even with this unusual spread.

That dollar per gallon goes somewhere... At best it reduces the price of gas at the pump. At worst it goes to oil companies' profits.

Evil oil companies. How dare they sell us what we demand!

End result is that ethanol is not used as much as it could, end-user pays more, and profits + credit go to oil companies. Great system huh ?
We import ethanol, so I don't know where you get this.

How much do we import ?

http://www.cattlenetwork.com/Content.asp?ContentID=221641

For the other numbers mentioned :
Any corn subsidy goes to all corn producers (farmers), regardless of where the corn goes.
They did the math. Your logic is non sequitur.

And I don't understand the $3.6 'extra payed at the pump'. What is that and who receives it ?
There were three links there. If you are going to challenge the first link you should have followed the supporting links.

The numbers say we should have started fixing this decades ago. It will be too little too late from here.
And arguing the price of ethanol is just whistling through the graveyard.

If it's whistling through the graveyard, then why are you complaining about these subsidies to me ?

Nice try, but I'm not complaining. I couldn't care less about the subsidies. What I do care about is the constant distraction all this causes. Keeps peoples heads in the sand....

As I already mentioned, I'm all for abolishing these subsidies.
Once again, at best it results in a reduction in price at the pump, at worst it goes to oil company profits.

Reduce the subsidy and the price goes down? Boggle. Evil oil companies...

None of it goes to ethanol producers (who are not doing so well with $6/bushel corn in and $2.30/gallon ethanol out).

Well duh! This is about the wealth of the cooperate farmer. Where have you been?

The bigger job is to get oil production and ethanol production at a level playing field, and not controlled by oil companies (as is currently the case).

Where do you get this stuff?

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: MPG vs MPD with Ethanol
    ... But it seems that blenders (oil companies) figured out that by collectively NOT blending in more ethanol, they keep the ethanol price low. ... Any corn subsidy goes to all corn producers, regardless of where the corn goes. ...
    (sci.energy)
  • Re: Ethanol in gas?
    ... delivers less energy than straight gas. ... with the subsidy included. ... Cornell University did a study of the efficiency of producing ethanol - ... Yes the US of A produces a whole lot of corn simply because the stuff ...
    (rec.autos.makers.honda)
  • Re: Another reason ethanol is a bad idea
    ... If flex-fuel engines can have other sources of ethanol instead of corn like ... That's what we're seeing right now with biofuels, ... a tariff of 54 cents on a gallon while Iowan corn ethanol gets a subsidy? ...
    (misc.transport.road)
  • Ethanol isnt the answer...
    ... For those of you hoping ethanol is a way to quit relying on Middle Eastern emirs and socialists in South America: ... Without such a subsidy, ethanol simply wouldn't be cost competitive with gasoline. ... They've found that it takes more than a gallon of fossil fuel to make one gallon of ethanol--29% more. ... That's because it takes enormous amounts of fossil-fuel energy to grow corn, to transport the crops and then to turn that corn into ethanol. ...
    (alt.politics.bush)
  • Re: OT - You Want Ethanol?
    ... which has a state subsidy ... entities or "subsidizees" who work about ten days a year) 10% ethanol ... a sign that an Iowa campaign stop may be in his future. ... expensive to make and provides far fewer miles per gallon than gasoline. ...
    (rec.outdoors.rv-travel)