Re: Kook warning, Oriel36

From: don findlay (don_at_tower.net.au)
Date: 09/12/04 

Date: 11 Sep 2004 17:34:56 -0700

geraldkelleher@hotmail.com (Oriel36) wrote in message news:<273f8e06.0409110659.58cbec41@posting.google.com>...

> I tell people to go outside and enjoy the spectacle,not as an observer
> but as a participator in the motions of the Earth,only then will they
> realise what Newton's bulltalk of the sun around the earth is the same
> as the earth around the sun amounts to and with it his ballistic
> agenda.

Now I can understand this. Then Newton's 'bulltalk' was making that
equivalence, and therefore substituting relativism for absolutism.
I've never seen it quite like that. The exact analogy in geology is
talking about subduction and overriding as the same thing. (Howzat
folks, ..from a dummy?) But you have to see what's behind it -
subduction, and where the idea for it is COMING *from*, ...and
overriding, and where that idea is LEADING *too*, and what it means
when the USGS talks about "overriding/ subduction" as the same thing,
and what Oriel is talking about when he says about the fire that is
intuitive insight, and how the mediocrity of 'science' puts it out in
order to appropriate the ashes to scatter on their own (flat) garden,
and in so doing take their eyes off the ball. Given a glimpse of the
Titanic (and the iceberg ahead) they just concern themselves with the
deckchairs. .....

 
> If they wish to comprehend axial rotation they can get up at dawn and
> see the Earth rotating out of its orbital shadow (night),if they wish
> to appreceate the great annual sweep around the sun they can do so by
> appreceating the change in seasons due to the change in orbital
> orientation.

**GOTCHA!** "...the idea behind it!!...." (I tell you Carsten, Look
to the transforms. Take on board the *assumption of subduction, get
past that one, then look at the alternative. And then look at the
Geology, and see if it doesn't unfold like a flower in the light of
dawn.)

Hey but Oriel, I think if you don't want to throw out all of plate
tectonics, then you too need to look at that assumption.
<http://users.indigo.net.au/don/nonsense/subass.html> (I'll get some
better quotes for the page later - some real humdingers.) In all the
*geology* that makes you hesitate, you will find nothing to jettison
(and possibly something extra astrophysical to consider). The
hypothesis yes, but not the geology. But you're dead right about first
needing to lay to rest this stationary (flat) Earth. It's hardly
credible that the astronomical connection is ignored. Strange, given
the oblate shape of the Earth that the couple of gravity - rotation
has never figured in geological thought. In fact every reason under
the sun has been found to negate it in order to support the 'gravity
only' encyclicals.

>
> http://www.museum.vic.gov.au/scidiscovery/images/mn000783_w150.gif
>

> > Luckily there is only a few of your kind in between a Steno and a Wegener. The rest of us is fairly
> > average.
> >
>
> Average people create average notions of the universe whereas
> ordinary people often do extraordinary things.You probably would not
> understand this at present but the vast majority of people often
> struggle against their natural talents out of social convenience and I
> assure you I did for many years.Sometimes when the impulse is so great
> the person gives in and instead of being an 'average' somebody they
> become something altogether different.
>
> Who knows ?, instead of an average geologist you could be a world
> class netmender, composer,chef or artist but it takes courage to find
> your own way in these things.These things I do are not difficult, sure
> it is not easy to sort out the mess Newton created but as long as you
> can incorporate the greater rotation of the solar system around the
> Milky Way axis and its influence on the Milankovitch cycles who
> cares.If you want to remain with Newtonian ballistics then good for
> you.

THAT'S IT CARSTEN, YOU NEED TO GO FIND YOUR MOUNTAIN. Be proactive,
not reactive as they say. (And *** 'em!) You just need to make a
decision about social convenience v. natural talent. That's all. (!)
 Oriel's ahead of us in this astrophysical - geological connection, no
question about it. But the Geology needs reconfigured. (Subduction,
...you need to address the issue of subduction, and the fire that was
its creation (= 'ridges' = 'underplating', not dykes). Look in the
leaping flame, not in the cold black ash.

 
>
> I have no ideals beyond enjoying what we inherited from our ancestors
> in terms of their insights,natural,artististic,architectural and
> perhaps adding to them them for others to enjoy.The merit system now
> only recognises the most outrageous concepts that physicists can dream
> up,these concepts having no existence within experience and blocking
> out the works of Copernicus,Kepler,Roemer where it requires only going
> outside to witness the spectacle,likwise terrestial evolution and the
> work of geologists.

The flame. Terribily difficult for others to conjure out of the
spread-around ashes, but wonderful to behold right enough, and surely
full of promise and direction compared to the sterility of the merit
system (ashes)

> I owe too many people within my immediate circle to consider which
> side of the table I am on and that can be a bigger challenge than any
> work on natural phenomena,besides the common touch can be easily
> lost.It takes inhuman concentration to deal with some matters and it
> requires suspending social concerns for a while and I assure you that
> is and remains extremely difficult.

Tell me about it! The insight part is terrific - like electric
fireworks and the Jackpot-spitting casino bandit all rolled into one
with orchestras playing at a thousand decibels. But once you've seen
it, like it or not you're doomed to the rational part. A moment's
insiration - and a liftime's *perspiration* - and ever other -ation
you can think of! With eyes set only on the next foothold/ handhold,
reading only the runes in front of your eyes, you're a social pariah
and a threat to everyone's comfort zone. (And don't some just hope
you fall off, and even try to help you along where they can, so they
can put their boot on your neck - as if it were Everest! (Triumph
writ large) (Like they do with Carey.) <laugh> <Mountain climbers>

> Somehow this is the way it is meant
> to be and I have no complaint except pretensiousness,solemnity and the
> hoodwinking of people I see going on,if you wish to remain supporting
> the spurious concepts of the early 20th century which are symptoms of
> Newton's errors you will add nothing to understanding nature nor to
> the real giants of our race.

Yes, democracy is entirely predicated on the media keeping the hems on
the government of the day, and yet scientific consensus is allowed and
encouraged to be monolithic. And so we get the 'science'(and the
scientists)we deserve.
(Reposting one of McNeil's links:-
<http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-08/cu-bse081204.php>

 
> > Not applying any practical circumstances to your words certainly prevents you from getting dirty.
>
> Do you wish to recognise the next great rotational step beyond
> heliocentric motion or not ?,if you do you will better understand
> Keplerian motion and the Milankovitch cycles,if not stick with
> Newtonian ballistics or the homocentricity of the early 20th
> century.It is that simple.

(Yup, ...pointing the way..) In the gravitational - rotational couple
that is the Earth's geodynamics, rotation finally threatens to take
its seat, despite all best efforts by 'geophysicists'. (What a bunch,
eh? To a man, not one of them prepared to put a word in for rotation,
even though the Earth's primary shape reflects it, and it wakens them
up (?) every day. A consensus asleep.)