Re: Question about an alternate abiotic origin of Martian "blueberries"

From: jonathan (Write_at_Instead.com)
Date: 12/04/04 

Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 06:47:39 -0500

"Carsten Troelsgaard" <carsten.troelsgaard@mail.dk> wrote in message
news:41b15f2a$0$126$edfadb0f@dread14.news.tele.dk...
>
> "Andrew Diseker" <adiseker@lexonia.net> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:adiseker-A926C0.10153703122004@news-50.dca.giganews.com...
> >
> > Sorry about the title, I didn't want to be ignored as a crackpot
> > before someone read my post. Afterwards, you can call me insane! :-)
> >
> > At any rate, I've been checking the Opportunity site daily looking
> > at the raws, and something struck me about the "blueberries" in so
> > many images. I know the accepted wisdom is that they were all formed
> > by flowing water leaching out hematite and forming the spheres, but
> > what struck me is that they looked a lot like hailstones after a
> > storm, scattered all over, especially sitting on top of the rocks.
>
> Makes me think of a 550 mill year old fossil droplet-mark in a shale I once saw. The
point is, that
> the blueberries as concretions are characterized by growing in the subsurface
without leaving any
> kind of scour-marks or shape up any wind/water-lee structures in their vicinity.
They would also
> aggregate in sorted layers as Aidan points out, if left in a streaming environment.
The blueberries
> that has not been erodet out all show the above characteristics. The odd-looking
surface of Mars
> probably stems from the thin atmosphere - it has no mechanical erosive power
compared to Earth, but
> what it has may have acted over a very long time.

It's important to keep in mind the mineralogy and environmental
context at work.

"The nature of coarse-grained crystalline hematite and its implications
for the early environment of Mars"

Abstract

"The Thermal Emission Spectrometer (TES) on the Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft
has detected deposits of coarse-grained, gray crys-talline hematite in Sinus
Meridiani, Aram Chaos, and Vallis Marineris. We argue that the key to the origin
of gray hematite is that it requires crystallization at temperatures in excess of
about 100?C. We discuss thermal crystallization (1) as diagenesis at a depth
of a few kilometers of sediments originally formed in low-temperature waters,
or (2) as precipitation from hydrothermal solution."
http://www.atmos.washington.edu/~davidc/papers_mine/Catling_Moore2003Icarus.pdf

Then take a look at this wonderful pic
http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2004/11/27/
The ripples are clearly formed by water since they are aligned
in many different directions and follow the path water
would take.

So the context should be that warm mineral-rich water flows out from
underground periodically. Which is an ideal....let me say that
again....IDEAL context for life. Combined with these mysterious
spheres that have obviously 'grown' in place, and here's the
big clue... are little copies of each other.

Geology doesn't reproduce itself so nicely, neatly and
repetitively. Maybe in a small area or two it will, but
Meridiani covers " an area several times larger than
all the sedimentary rock exposures of northern Arizona,
New Mexico, and eastern Utah,"

Everywhere that has dark soil at Meridiani has those spheres
as they make the soil dark. There is dark soil all over Mars
and not coincidentally, always on the floor of canyons
and craters or other places water would stand.

http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/canyons/PIA02398.html
http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/sanddunes/PIA01695.html
http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/5_27_98_agu_release/7707rel.gif

And we have another mystery, all those fine laminations
in the sedimentary rock. Countless laminations that are
perfectly uniform in thickness, denoting a highly repetitive
process such as tides, seasons etc.
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/p/280/1P153040668EFF37LJP2443L2M1.HTML

"Laboratory cultures of calcifying biomicrospheres generate ooids -
A contribution to the origin of oolites"

Abstract

"The in vitro production of ooid-like structures as possible precursors of
oolites has been observed in laboratory cultures of spherical microbial
communities isolated from the Wadden Sea (North Sea)."

Introduction

"Precipitation of calcium carbonate is widespread in microbial communities
forming biofilms and microbial mats. The laminated structure of these communities
consists of layers of carbonate which outlast the microbial colony that produced
them. Fossilized remains of these communities in which particles of other
sediment are also included are known as stromatolites. They have a long fossil
record since early Proterozoic and still flourish in particular in the reefs of
the Bahamas and Australia (e.g. Visscher et alii, 2002). "

.........
Here's the Bahamas guys
http://www.theflyingcircus.com/stella_maris.html
Here's Mars
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/n/119/1N138744629EFF2809P1987R0M1.JPG
............

"The typical stromatolitic structure is laminated. Each lamina represents a horizon
of former microbial biofilm or mat (Kalkowsky, 1908). Associated mineral
particles (precipitates and detrital grains) are overgrown and sometimes entirely
coated by microbial assemblages (Riding and Awramik, 2000). Small (mm size),
spherical to oval concentrically laminated carbonate bodies or aggregates, which
form in shallow tropical seas are called ooids and are known to become
consolidated into rocks called oolitic limestones (oolith, Rogenstein; Kalkowsky,
1908). The genesis of ooid grains is still enigmatic. The alternative explanations
are confronted along the lines of predominantly abiotic vs. biogenic origin of
ooid grains and the associated carbonate precipitates."
http://paleopolis.rediris.es/cg/CG2004_L03/

>From the standpoint of geology, nothing at Meridiani
'fits nicely' with earth analogs. From a biological
perspective...everything...at Meridianis fits nicely.

Why do we deny the obvious, and not just let the evidence
take us where it will?

Jonathan

s

>
> > What I was wondering, has anyone thought that there might be an
> > atmospheric origin of the blueberries? Could they have been formed
> > in a thicker, more humid Martian atmosphere via accretion, until
> > they were too large to remain suspended?
> >
> > Feel free to obliterate this scenario: Dust in the current Martian
> > atmosphere can remain suspended for a year or more, at the present
> > density. There are also clouds of ice crystals present in the
> > atmosphere, forming under various conditions. What if the atmosphere
> > temporarily thickens and becomes more humid, maybe due to volcanic
> > activity, increased solar activity, or impact of a comet? It would
> > seem that a denser atmosphere could hold dust for a much longer time,
> > and with more water vapor there would be more ice clouds. Could the
> > dust clouds of a global storm interact with ice clouds, such that
> > dust particles coat ice crystals, melting the ice, and attracting
> > more dust and ice crystals? Since the dust and ice particles are
> > very small, it would seem that any "mud" that resulted would form
> > into a very tiny sphere, and would form the basis for further
> > accretion in a way that retained the spherical shape. Once the spheres
> > had reached enough mass they could no longer be suspended and would
> > fall out of the air. If this occurred on a cyclical basis, there
> > could be layers of these "blueberries" such as we see in the various
> > rock formations in Endurance. The original spheres could even dry
> > out from evaporation, as long as they retained the shape for later
> > particles to accrete to.
> >
> > Anyway, that's what occurred to me. Please, be polite if not kind
> > when slamming my idea! Also, if there is a more appropriate group,
> > please redirect the followups there.
>
> We have a continous discussion of the topic, so it's appropriate.
>
> > Thank you for your time!
>
>
>
> Carsten
>
>

Relevant Pages

  • Re: The case for AGW
    ... CO2 is not a pollutant! ... facilitated through lubrication by water between the ice and the base ... The water lubricant has two sources. ... atmosphere where the rarefied nature of the atmosphere opens this ...
    (uk.politics.misc)
  • Re: Gore Slams Global Warming Critics On TV
    ... The Washington Post reported that because of melting ice caps and glaciers, ... they are _adding_ water mass to the sea. ... and vapor (in the atmosphere). ...
    (rec.arts.tv)
  • Re: On the Subject of Ice
    ... Nucleus" is suggesting that a comet doesn't have an atmosphere? ... Tempel I. Ice that could fuel a spaceplane or be used as 'drinking ... Venus is probably loaded with water. ...
    (sci.space.shuttle)
  • Re: Brightest Moon
    ... Enceladus, a moon of Saturn, reflects 99% of the light that falls on it. ... Its surface is covered in water ice. ... Once you get an atmosphere, then it gets really hard to predict how ...
    (rec.arts.sf.science)
  • Re: Chemistry Question: Thawing Frozen Milk
    ... However, from chemistry, theory says there should be a slight, but not significant, difference in fat-containing milk, which ... Homogenizing "breaks" the cold fat into small enough particles that they don't float in the water solution Think cold butter blasted into such tiny particles that they remain as solids suspended in the water. ... They freeze evenly. ... milk or ice cream without knowing the components or structure of it is. ...
    (rec.food.cooking)