Re: Scientists discover why is the North Pole frozen

From: Daryl Krupa (icycalmca_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 02/26/05 

Date: 25 Feb 2005 23:42:26 -0800

george of the jungle wrote:
> On 25 Feb 2005 16:15:02 -0800, "Daryl Krupa" <icycalmca@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
<snip>
> >> By the way the THC is cranking this winter and Europe was warm
until
> >> recently but areas south of Siberia have suffered from brutal
cold.
> >
> > Have you noticed if that situation has affected the
> >curvature of number of Rossby Waves to a significant
> >amount?
> >
> I haven't looked at that. I have no idea. I'm a geochemist trained
in
> geology with a hobby of meteorology. Physical oceanography is not my
> thing.

  Rossby waves are atmospheric phenomena,
http://paos.colorado.edu/~toohey/Fig_8.jpg
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/science_sky/96424
but that's just a side issue. Never mind.

> ><snip>
> >> > AFAICS, the Pliocene ocean conveyor system and
> >> >the swings-both-ways effect of increased Gulf Stream warming
> >> >in the figures at the next two URLs are truly speculative, and
> >> >neither support nor follow from the arguments, modelling, and
> >> >evidence in Haug, et al. (2005). Too many cooks in that article?
> >> >
> >> >http://oceanusmag.whoi.edu/v42n2/haug-en2.html
> >> >
> >> >http://oceanusmag.whoi.edu/v42n2/haug-en4.html
> >>
> >> Those diagrams miss the subtleties of the actual currents. The
warm
> >> return flow runs close to S. Africa and the Gulf stream runs close
to
> >> N America up to the Outer Banks of NC.
> >
> > Yep. Again, I'll note that the diagrams do not seem to be
> >illustrating the modern situation, but rather an imaginary
> >former situation that was supposedly the norm before the
> >Pleistocene.
>
> Yes, but it doesn't make sense because the factors controlling the
> current positions have not changed significantly. The biggest factor
> is the position of the continents. Geologically the Pliocene wasn't
> that long ago.

  Here's a diagram of the modern THC; it doesn't differ radically
from Haug's THC diagram; maybe Haug's version is just a product of
artistic license. One must remember that most graphic designers
do not have training in cartography, and seem to operate on the
principle that "the prettier and the more dramatic the map is,
the more authentic it is".

http://paos.colorado.edu/~toohey/fig_49.jpg

> ><snip>
> >
> >> >-----------------------------------------------------
> >> >[slightly modified to remove ref's to Figures, etc.]
> >> >
> >> >news and views
> >> >
> >> >Nature 433, 809 - 810 (24 February 2005);
> >> >doi:10.1038/433809a
> >> >
> >> >Climate change: Snow maker for the ice ages
> >> >
> >> >KATHARINA BILLUPS
> ><snip>
> >> >This then provides the configuration on which to build
> >> >an ice age: late winter cooling reflects climate cooling,
> >> >allowing snow to accumulate; late summer warming
> >> >increases the atmosphere's potential to hold moisture and
> >> >to load the snow gun.
> >>
> >> The atmosphere does not "hold moisture". The vapor pressure of
water
> >> is a function of temperature. It is a fundamental property of H2O.
> >
> > I think that she was referring to dew point, and not to
> >vapour pressure.
> >
> In any region of the ocean, dew point is a function of water
> temperature and atmospheric mixing. Obviously weather (and island
> topography) affects it but if you know the water temp over the ocean
> you can make a pretty good guess at the dewpoint.

  Right, but the warmer the air, the more water vapour it can carry,
no? And the warmer the air mass flowing from ocean ot continent, the
more moisture is available for precipitation, and the further that
moisture can be carried before it all precipitates out, no?
 
<snip>

-
Daryl Krupa

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