Re: Mineral analysis may reveal life on Mars


"Jo Schaper" <joschapern4ospam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:11rvs6l33clvfd5@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> jonathan wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Yes, the civilized and educated west.
>
> Westerners were specified in the original post, jonathan.
> >
> >
> > FOX News/Opinion Dynamics Poll. August 25-26,1999. N=902
> > registered voters nationwide. MoE ± 3.
> > .
> >
> > "Which do you think is more likely to actually be the explanation for
> > the origin of human life on Earth: the theory of evolution as outlined
> > by Darwin and other scientists, the biblical account of creation as
> > told in the Bible, or are both true?"
> >
> > Theory of evolution 15 %
> > Biblical account 50 %
> > Both 26 %
> > Not sure 9 %
> >
> > http://www.pollingreport.com/science.htm
>
> Close-ended polls are stupid and wildly inaccurate, since the respondent
> is limited to only two responses. There are many other possibilities not
> represented here: seeding from space, non-Biblical creation accounts,
> non-evolution naturalistic explanation,statistical chance/fluke etc.


That's why I included the above link. If you'd click some of the things
I post once in a while...hint...you'd see I'm not just talking out my nose.
Whether in this or other topics, I include links that expound~
in much more detail. The polls in the link ask the same kind of question
forty different ways asked by almost every major polling firm around.



If
> life is discovered elswhere new theories of origin of life are sure to
> spring up. Burst some people out of their tiny bubbles. Probably a good
> thing.
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Half of this country thinks the earth is only ten thousand
> > years old, and we were created in our present form in
> > ....six days or less.
>
> Again, what are the polling parameters? And the location of the sample?
> Take this poll in Springfield Mo, as the world headquarters of the
> Assembly of God services let out, and you'll get a far different answer
> from a few miles away at a state university bull session. I never
> believe polls as being inerrant, because polling methods/locations are
> rarely revealed.


Which is why you shouldn't rely on one poll, but sample many
over a period of time and look at the overall trends. The link
above....again...is fairly comprehensive. And rather surprising.



> >
> > And much of the other half of the world still has great difficulty
> > with the notion of girls being allowed to go to school. Or even
> > showing their faces.
>
> This is irrelevant to whether or not exobiology would be accepted,and
> the Islamic population defined above is non-Western. You just show your
> ignorance of the economic reality of Third World countries in saying
> 'girls are not allowed to go to school.'


> >
> > The discovery of life elsewhere is more likely to set off an
> > increase in religious beliefs and activity. Which to many can
> > be a rather scary thing ....all things considered.
>
> I dunno. There are plenty of Biblical references to angels, Eziekiel's
> 'wheel in a wheel in the sky' and other life forms which may be
> interpreted as 'extraterrestrial'. Maybe the religionists will be more
> able to deal with such a reality than materialistic skeptics, albeit as
> colored by their unique sort of view. (Also, see the difference between
> the two preachers in the movie Contact, for further possibilities.)



That was such a good sci-fi movie. Jodie is my all-time favorite
actress. I thought the entire movie was a discussion of comparing
the role of faith in both religion and science. Jody had absolute faith
in the benelovence of any alien life, and the technology they supplied.
Faith based on what? On her faith that intelligence is the path to
truth and good. So a more advanced alien intelligence must display
these things in it's purest form, and they become God to her.
A path for her scientific and emotional salvation.

How does this differ from the faith of the preacher? He looks at the
magnificent creative ability of the universe, and knows that which
created such a place must define the purest wisdom and good.

The point of the movie is that science and religion are looking for
the same things, using equal measures of faith, only with different
frames of reference. One looks outside, the other within.

Which is why they can't understand each other.

We must learn to do both with /one/ method of understanding.

Complexity science has accomplished that. It has found
a rational mathematical way of combining the two.
Combining the methods and tools of modern science
within a frame or reference of downward causation (holism).
Which requires a systems or relativistic approach.

This allows the power of modern science and our subjective
abilities to be merged in a way that is consistent with itself
and consistent with reality.

Neither science or religion today can claim to be both.
Until science and religion are consistent with each other we
/will not/ understand our fundamental laws, this universe
or ourselves.


The most defining or universal properties of the universe
CANNOT be quantified, what matter most cannot be
put into an equation. The minute you objectify something
it's greater emergent system properties vanish.

Even dear Emily knew this a century ago.




A transport one cannot contain
May yet a transport be --
Though God forbid it lift the lid --
Unto its Ecstasy!

A Diagram -- of Rapture!
A sixpence at a Show --
With Holy Ghosts in Cages!
The Universe would go!




Jonathan


s





>
> There are two factors which will operate on a population in case
> exobiology is indeed confirmed: its intent/effects on humans, and the
> similarity or difference from familiar earth life forms. Invisible
> spores which bring instant death are much different than intelligent
> purposeful aliens with the aim to rescue us from our own stupidity.
> Speculation on how people will react is useless until when/if it
> happens. To see how people would react to macro-beings one merely need
> trace the history of the UFO movement, from Air Force investigations, to
> Roswell, to the alien abduction crowd.
>
> Unless there is some basic chemical or biological incompatibility which
> would cause immediate human disease/death (this was a great fear when
> people went to the Moon, remember?) People are going to be people, and
> react in all sorts of ways, and eventually either kill/learn to live
> with/become allies of exobiology.
>
> I wish I had that flowchart I saw back in the late 70s in F&SF by Gahan
> Wilson-- it was allegedly a science-fiction story generator, but it
> covered most of the outcomes and possibilities of human/alien contact.
>
>
>



.

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