Author's response to questions raised - Oceans may soon be more corrosive than when the dinosaurs died
- From: "George" <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 03:49:59 GMT
Hi all. I took the liberty of e-mailing the author of the report I posted
earlier about the oceans becoming more corrosive. I presented some
questions and arguments that one poster and I had about the research. The
author was gracious enough to reply. What follows is a copy of his reply,
and my response to it. In addition, he sent me some supporting data. I
would be happy to e-mail it to anyone interested in perusing it. I don't
want to post it here because of copyright issues (not all of the data
belongs exclusively to the author), but he has given me permission to share
his data.
Enjoy,
George
______________________________________________________
Ken:
Thanks for responding to my e-mail. I don't normally intrude like this on
others, but like I said, I'm not a climatologist nor an oceanographer,
though I
have a lot of other hydrogeologic experience (groundwater, rivers, and some
wetlands). I had a feeling the poster was incorrect about much of what he
was
saying but I wanted to hear it from someone in the field before I
responded. I
was sure that he was incorrect about the atmospheric CO2 levels, but was
less
certain about his claim about absorption at the ocean surface. Having said
that, what about the buffering effect of ocean water. There are huge
volumes of
buffers in the world's oceans. In addition, the ocean is a huge carbon
sink.
One would think that any increase in CO2 would cause increased carbonate
formation, which would aid (but not completely mitigate) in neutralizing
any
increase in acidity. What negating effect does the buffering capacity of
the
oceans have on mitigating some of these effects your model predicts?
What you said about atmospheric CO2 uptake by plants makes sense, but what
about
the acid rain effect (aqueous) on plant tissue? Wouldn't that have a
detrimental effect regardless of the ability of plants to take up the
gaseous
phase? And finally, I agree that his claim that there is no danger is not
supported.
I look forward to reading any material you care to share.
Sincerely,
Ron Yates
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Caldeira" <kcaldeira@xxxxxxxxx>
To: "jryates" <jryates@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: Oceans may soon be more corrosive than when the dinosaurs died
Ron (George),
First of all, you are welcome to post my response on your web site
and, as far as I am concerned, you can post anything of mine.
To respond:
NONSENSE SNIPPED
The average concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere is
0.036%. This value has not changed since records have been kept.
THIS IS SIMPLY NOT TRUE. FOR EXAMPLE, PLEASE LOOK AT:
http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/trends/co2/contents.htm
Some of
this CO2 is dissolved by water ( 0.759ml CO2/ ml H2O at STP) in the
atmosphere to give carbonic acid (see
Henry's law) this gives the average pH of rainwater of 5.7 This
,rainwater,contributes almost all the acidity from atmospheric CO2 to the
ocean. There is very little
absorption of CO2 into water at the ocean-air interface.
THIS SUGGESTION THAT THERE IS VERY LITTLE ABSORPTION OF CO2 AT THE
OCEAN SURFACE IS ALSO NOT TRUE. EVIDENCE OF THIS ABSORPTION HAS BEEN
FOUND IN MANY THOUSANDS OF OBSERVATIONS. FOR EXAMPLE, LOOK AT:
http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/oceans/glodap/Glodap_home.htm
For the acidity of rainwater to have much effect on the ocean would mean
a
dramatic increase in the acidity of the rain water over a great time
span.
This would likely wipe out most land species long before there would be
even
a slight change in the ocean pH.
THIS IS ALSO NOT TRUE. IF ANYTHING, CO2 FERTILIZES LAND PLANTS. IN
CONTRAST, IN THE OCEANS CO2 CAN MAKE SEAWATER CORROSIVE TO CARBONATE
MINERAL SKELETONS AND SHELLS.
There is no reason to believe that there is any danger at all of thisTHERE IS NO BASIS FOR THAT STATEMENT.
happening in the near geologic future.
This paper you cite is not based on anything even close to any kind of
scientific study. like checking the pH of ocean water at as many
locations
needed
to make the data significant to see if the pH was indeed decreasing.
OBSERVATIONS OF OCEAN CHEMISTRY HAVE BEEN UNDERWAY (AGAIN, FOR
EXAMPLES, SEE http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/oceans/glodap/Glodap_home.htm).
ALL OBSERVATIONS SUPPORT THE CLAIMS MADE IN OUR STUDY.
Papers like these are political science not physical science based only
on
preconceived conclusions and WILD speculation.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR OPINION.
Regards,
Ken
PS. I will send supporting material in emails to follow.
--
===============================
Ken Caldeira
Department of Global Ecology
Carnegie Institution
260 Panama Street
Stanford, CA 94305 USA
+1 650 704 7212; fax: +1 650 462 5968
kcaldeira@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
.
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