Re: USGS scientists worry about being muzzled

In article <05hgh.1164$DJ4.975@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
George <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

"Robert Grumbine" <bobg@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:12o2mv153jv7h88@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
In article <p57gh.1171$G46.681@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
George <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

"Timberwoof" <timberwoof.spam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:timberwoof.spam-EC4192.22591513122006@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<SNIP>

It's going to take a while to clean up that mess: Bureaucrats empowered
to decide what scientists and can't publish without prior notification
aren't going to like giving up that work.

Solution? All the government scientists can sit down and refuse to work
until the Republicans end this charade. That would pretty much shut down
every major facility in the nation. I'd like to see them try to
outsource THAT!

Come again? Your solution to an administration that doesn't want
scientists to publish or talk to the public about their science is
for the scientists to not publish or talk to the public? You'll
have to explain that tactic.

I suspect (probably based on my own experience) that government scientists
do more than just push pencils.

Indeed they do.

Some actual perform work that is vital to
national interest. The CDC, the FDA, NOAA, The National Weather Service,
the DOE, the USGS, Corps of Engineers, the bomb designers, the bomb
buiklders, etc.

The US would fall if the bomb designers didn't go to work for a week?

The side of the NWS that people interact with (really by way of commercial
services that actually do the interaction) is the forecasting side, not
the science end. If the scientists (the folks making the models better
and that sort of thing) stayed home for a week, nobody would notice.
Likewise most of the rest of your list.

Might be a few scientists at CDC -- if there were an outbreak of
something in that week -- who would be in a response to emergency
situation whose absence would make a difference that would be noticed.

Science is just _not_ a matter of 'or else you die tomorrow/this week'.
There's a span between figuring out some new science and having a
practical application. Adding a week to that span would only be
noticed by the people who stayed home.

Science is a good, important, valuable (vital) activity. I think
we're agreed there. I'm only disagreeing about a week hiatus in
scientific activity being something that will be noticed, or would
carry that message if it were. Certainly it would not carry that
message to the white house.

Bush is just trying to get these guys to not publish
things that are outside of his agenda, or that contradicts it. He's not
trying to close them all down. If he did that, it would be a huge
catastrophe for the country, not to mention all ther money his pundants
would lose in pork barrel.

Compare the size of the science portion of the budget and the
size of the no-bid unaudited contracts let in Iraq and get back
on which is the more profitable part for his pork-fed friends.

My point was to send a message that
unambiguously demonstrates the value of our scientists. Closing the
country's science facilities, even if for a week, would definitely send
such a signal, Especially if such a signal included the NASA facilities.

Again, who is going to see that signal?

Recall, too, that the 'experiment' has already been done. NASA (and most
others you named) _did_ shut down, on much larger scale than just the
scientists, and for 3 weeks, not 1 -- back in the Gingrich-Clinton duel.
I knew about it because I live near DC. People more than 50 miles
away barely noticed any of the shutdown, and certainly weren't
complaining about the loss of science that happened. Few complained
of anything.

As to the outsourcing of science, that's already under way. As
the US cripples its science education, there's not much alternative
anyhow.

Just wait until they get tired of looking over their shoulders for ***
Cheney's drooling smile and decide to hunt elsewhere for employment.

Already in progress, particularly in biology and climate-related
work. I notice a distinct lack of outcry as scientists head (or head
back) overseas.


--
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links.
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences
.

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