Re: Creationists Open "Creation Museum" in Petersburg, KY


"Jo Schaper" <jospamnotschaper34@5socket78dot9net> wrote in message
news:135r10tj3c3t542@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I wish there were another name for these yahoos. Creation does not mean
'miraculous generation by unknown forces out of nothing, by mere intent."


Imagine for a moment the following. Just at that narrow temperature
where water just turns to vapor. The primary properties there are a
maximum of volatility and randomness. This is where certainty
and predictability are at a complete minimum from the perspective
of the molecules as they are chaotically changing states
in the most volatile manner possible. The two different states
are intractably entangled so that one can't tell which-is-which.

But the great discovery of chaos theory and the complexity sciences is
another property exists at that state, which is /spontaneous cyclic order/
emerges from the chaotic transition state. As in a cloud becoming
a storm/tornado etc.

Don't you see where this is going? Creation....the ultimate source
for both the physical and living universes, resides where knowability
is at the very minimum. Knowability in the sense of all the typical
reductionist measures.

The component details are ...unknowable...at the source of
creation. While with equal strength, the path and overall
tendencies of the whole are easy to see.

After all, that transition state is very delicate, even a tiny
change in temperature and a dramatic change takes
place that even a child could predict. One extreme or
the other suddenly forms, in this case water or vapor.

So yes, the very latest mathematics would conclude that creation
DOES occur by..."'miraculous generation by unknown forces
out of nothing" as you say. And as far as intent is concerned.
That is crystal clear, the universe begins from a totally disordered
state (the transition state described above) and steadily/relentlessly
order increases.

It does so everywhere, and every chance it gets.

Those spheres on Mars Jo, a chemical soup repeatedly
soaked in water. That is the point at which the system
transitions from becoming less ordered over time, to
one that is becoming more ordered over time.
A pile of chemicals displaying an elegant form of life.

The point between geology and biology. And just like
that narrow transition point between water and vapor
it's neither water or vapor and both at the same time.
That is what is meant by chaotic, exhibiting both
particle and wave like behavior at the same time.

Meaning the initial creation should confound both
geologists and biologists. Neither and both at
the same time with perfectly equal weight.

Searching for creation is a search for the point
where the very least can be quantified and repeated.
It's a search for uncertainty, the ghosts of life.

The equation of creation, the grand theory of all theories
reads as follows.....

When opposite extremes in possibility stand persistantly poised
at the unstable equilibriun, or phase transition, between
each other.

On most terrestrial planets that point would be between
ice and vapor....water... of course. It's not enough to know
that water is the source of life, but /why/ that is so.
Because spontaneous order emerges from fluid motion.
And the abstract definition of a fluid is where the opposite
extremes in system possibility transition.

For instance, genetics and mutation would be the 'opposite
extremes' of evolution. The transition or fluid state would
be simply that which connects the two opposites in behavior.
Natural selection of course.

For instance, law and freedom would be the 'opposite
extremes' of a society. The fluid or chaotic state that
allows the two to interact and adapt are public opinion
of course.

For instance space time would be the fluid state between the
opposite extremes of gravity and cosmic expansion.

So, a quick quiz now that you have the secret to the creation
of all things in the universe.

How would you create the ideal diet?
How would you design the perfect politician?

Answer, when you can't tell which opposite extreme dominates.
Food or exercise? Liberal or conservative? The optimum
is where neither and both dominate.

And so on. It's so simple and easy a child could
understand and apply this Grand Unified Theory.

AND THAT'S WHY NO ONE BELIEVES IT

Even though anyone can tell you that simplicity
and universality are the tru tests of an idea.

It's too simple, no numbers, no proofs. Just
an intuitive grasp is all that is required.
No Phd's, no charts no 180 million equations
as in string theory. When you go down that
reductionist road, you only travel farther from
understanding nature and reality.



Creation is a good thing--taking something and making something else by
known processes and means. They give the word a bad name.


Both of you are extremists to me. Complexity sciences
moves easily within both camps, it stands poised at the
phase transition between the opposite extremes
of science and religion. Your dry description of creation
is just as repulsive to me as their quaint stories.
As Dear Emily said...



ARCTURUS is his other name,-
I 'd rather call him star!
It 's so unkind of science
To go and interfere!

I pull a flower from the woods,-
A monster with a glass
Computes the stamens in a breath,
And has her in a class.

What once was heaven, is zenith now.
Where I proposed to go
When time's brief masquerade was done,
Is mapped, and charted too!

What if the poles should frisk about
And stand upon their heads!
I hope I 'm ready for the worst,
Whatever prank betides!

Perhaps the kingdom of Heaven's changed!
I hope the children there
Won't be new-fashioned when I come,
And laugh at me, and stare!



s






.

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