Re: Crystals

On Mar 31, 5:08 am, "jonathan" <maats...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"jonathan" <maats...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

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"oriel36" <kelleher.ger...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Most here will just not get the point and that is fine with me,it is
the outlines of something new rather than a detailed account and
hardly appeals to those who have constructed a Big Bang Universe,at
least in its present form.The geometry that saturates the Earth and
its objects both animate and inanimate, tells me more of Universal
evolutionary processes but in such a way that it makes existence more
enjoyable rather than complicating things or rushing to conclusions
just for the sake of it.

When you see two entirely different systems, one physical such
as a galaxy or a hurricane, and another living such as a nautilus
or a pine cone , follow the very same mathematical relationships, what
does that say to you???

The logarithmic spiral
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/LogarithmicSpiral.html

Patterns in nature
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/pattern1.htm

To me it says the final form is not a function of initial conditions.
Our entire scientific method is based on beggining with intital
conditions and building from the ground up.

Yet in nature the same form shows up again and again with
completely different component details.

WHY?

What does a hurricane, a galaxy and a pine cone have in common???
Which also causes them to end up with similar forms?

This means the system specific details are not the definitive
forces or relationships in terms of the final form.

For instance, with a galaxy, gravity cannot be the force
that determines the final form, as that is not a common
factor in the final forms of hurricanes, pine cones, a nautilus
or the shape of the horns of a ram.

Neither is dna or thermodynamics the ultimate cause either
since that is not common to all that exhibit similar final forms.

So what is not only common to all the different systems
WHILE ALSO being the most important factor in determining
the final form?

Picture in your mind an object hovering between two
opposing forces, each force trying to pull the object
equally in opposite directions. But since the forces are
balanced, the object is held between the two opposite 'poles'.
When the object resides at one pole or the other
it's at one endpoint or extreme in its possible range of
behavior. At either pole its position and behavior
are at their highest level of ...certainty.

But while hovering /between/ the opposite poles, it
doesn't just sit there, it 'trembles' in a quantum way.
At the point between the opposite poles, where things
tremble, defines the point of the.... least certainty of all.

When the primary driving forces of ANY system display
this optimum level of uncertainty, where neither possibilities
or opposite extremes dominate, then the output becomes
universal. And the system begins evolving to a common
final form.

Which is self organized criticality.

To see this universal pattern and its simplicity we must
learn to do one thing. And that is to stop comparing
one thing to another. As in trying to compare a hurricance
to a nautilus. And start comparing each thing to /its own/
possible extremes in behavior.

WE MUCH COMPARE THINGS TO ITSELF!

Not other things.

Whenever a system resides midway between opposite extremes
in its own possible ranges, universal behavior takes over.
Evolution begins, which drives each system to its own optimum
structure and behavior. A logarithmic spiral is the most efficient
path, all systems displaying the golden spiral have been generated
in the most efficient way, from that uncertain or complex realm where
neither opposite extremes, forces or 'poles' dominate.

Since the most efficient path resides at the point where variable
behavior is the ....least certain....our objective reductionist methods
which seek out certainty cannot see this commonality.

Our modern science cannot quantify uncertainty/complexity.
So we can't see the true simplicity and elegance that is
common throughout the universe and life.

For instance, with the earth as a system, where would this
universal behavior be expected??? At the point where neither
opposite pole or extreme in possibility dominates defines the
most efficient path towards order. Or the point at which evolution
begins.

With the earth as the system at hand, we must simply compare it
to it's own possible extremes in behavior, and look for that critical
point where neither dominates.

One extreme in possible behavior is geology.

The opposite in possibility is the atmosphere.

The critical point, where niether geology or the wind
dominates if of course...WATER.

Or for a hurricane, neither one extreme...water or the other..air.
Or for a galaxy, neither gravity or energy dominates. But it
resides at the critical point where neither and both dominate.

Or for a society, neither the rule of law, the force for maintaining
order, or it's opposite...freedom dominate. Both both in balance
and the system spontaneously self tunes to the optimum....evolves.

Or for Darwin, neither genetics or it's opposite mutation dominates.
But where both and neither chaotically interact....natural selection
defines the place where evolution begins.

And so on, for all higher order in the universe, this mathematical
relationship holds.

For love even.

When the whole resides midway between the opposites in possibility
where neither dominaes. When two become one.

And it just occured to me, this is the answer to the logical quandary
of the anthropic principle.

" why do the fundamental laws take that particular form and not another?"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle

The only kind of universe that CAN exist is one with the very
same mathematical relationship. Midway between opposites
in possibility where neither gravity or cosmic expansion dominates.
But resides at the critical point between the two opposites in possibility.

The only universe that can exist is a creative one.

As any universe which begins as a hot soup of energy and steadily
cools to almost nothing, one extreme to the other, must
pass through the complex realm where neither opposite
extreme dominates. At some point any universe must begin
evolving and self tuning....must end up becoming
... fine-tuned for life.





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Perhaps it is better that it remains a private work.

That being said,the excellent site which displays intelligence in the
matter remains for those who have a feel for the geometry -

http://www.mcs.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/R.Knott/Fibonacci/fibnat2.html

A person here talked of depression in encountering the large scale and
complex structures of the Universe but I assume the person really
meant overwhelmed. and that is normal,for me and everyone else.There
are occasions where,as Dante said,a glimpse breaks through and we seen
things as they really are,-bound together -

"O grace abundant, by which I presumed
To fix my sight upon the Light eternal,
So that the seeing I consumed therein!
I saw that in its depths far down is existing
Bound up with love together in one volume....
Substance and accident and their operations
All interfused together in such wise
That what I speak of is a simple light.
But what was in the sun wherein I entered
I, though I call on genius, art and practice,
Cannot so tell that it could be imagined- Believe one can and let him
long to see it."

Dante

The poetry of humanity and their investigations into terrestrial and
celestial phenomena are not all that different and even if I respect
the divisions which seperate the definite endeavors of humanity in
science,art,music,social endeavors ect there is something which holds
it all together.Looking at nature through the eyes of faith is not the
same thing as guessing about nature ,for most here the novelty of the
latter obliterates the quiet satisfaction of the former yet there has
to be people who can see how productive investigations of natural
phenomena become when people are not so stuck on a
'method',scientific or otherwise..
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Crystals
    ... the object is held between the two opposite 'poles'. ... opposite pole or extreme in possibility dominates defines the ... point where neither dominates. ... And so on, for all higher order in the universe, this mathematical ...
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  • Re: Crystals
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    (sci.geo.geology)
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