Re: Warming - Cooling - Climate will change


"Jo Schaper" <jo345sch765aper@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:_7WdndGZf46NyNbVnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
JimLillie wrote:
Scotty wrote:



Recently I handled a clipping from Time(?) about 1980. For the previous 3 -
4 decades global temperatures had been creeping down. Glaciers were
advancing, and the Arctic ice cap was growing each year. Scientists are
concerned we may be entering a new ice age.


And then, in the early eighties, the rate of increase of C02 /doubled/ from
about 1% a year, to 2% more Co2 each year. And today Co2 levels
are about .....FORTY PERCENT HIGHER... then in 1980.




Historically England has been warm enough to grow grapes for wine. Now?
Historically England has been cold enough the Thames would freeze for Ice
Fairs. Now?
Canadian tundra has tree stumps, the tree line used to be farther North.

I do NOT deny Al Gore is a politician.

Jim Lillie -- engineer


Anyone that believes a forty percent increase in greenhouse gasses in just
a couple of decades would NOT warm the planet is in ...denial... big time.
Not to mention each year that figure jumps another couple percent.
In twenty five years that'll be another 40% increase. Assuming of
course countries like China and India don't turn to coal, which
emits twice as much C02.

Oh, that's right, China and India ARE turning more to coal every day
.....I forgot! Double what I just said.




No, but I do deny he is a scientist.


Does the word 'activist' mean anything? In politics, some dramatic license
is considered fair play. It's up to the other side to balance the emotional
appeal.


Jimmy Carter is more of an scientist than he is (if we wanna pick on
politicians)and look where it got him. Many people forget that Herbert Hoover
was some sort of an engineer, and obviously the wrong man in the wrong place
at the wrong time.


And our current President was an oil man. By the end of this year
we'll have oil at $200 a barrel. It was as low as $8 under his Clinton.



I'm not sure scientists should be in the public arena as advocates and not as
experts on their field. Even Einstein went a little wacky when he got mixed up
in commenting on things outside of physics and it's applications.

Seriously, if people want to take a look at GW, get a copy of this month's
Skeptic Magazine. They have an article on the error bars of many of the
computer models which are being presented to the general public as fact, and a
couple of other articles covering a spectrum of viewpoints. Wired Mag also has
an interesting tack that tech is going to save us-- well, that's one take on
things, but going blissfully pastoral isn't gonna happen, either.

Climate changes...that's a given. That the current virus of 6.7 billion people
(many of whom have air conditioners and more than half live in heat island
cities) has no impact on weather and climate -- well, I don't buy that. On the
other hand, the GW crazies who claim people are most of the problem, and the
sun, sunspots, volcanoes, Milankovitch cycles and weather patterns are
incidental -- well, I don't buy that, either.


So, you don't think human activity has the potential to overwhelm
natural forces? Humans have transformed the face of the planet
in terms of the diversity of life, geology and the biosphere at rates
of change that far outstrip natural evolution.

Intelligence is an emergent creation. An emergent evolutionary step
is generally so large as that which came before cannot even
comprehend the new emergent creation. Such as plants to animals
and animals to intelligence.

Intelligence emerges once all the physical niches have been filled.
As intelligence expands a niche...dimensionally...not physically.
And has orders of magnitude more potential for change and
control than what came before.




I think most rational folks agree that we shouldn't foul this planet unless we
have an alternative, we should clean up our messes as much as we can, and
doing more with less is a good thing. I've about had it to here with the true
believers in global warming as preached by Gore, and the mainstream media. We
don't need to cry wolf== we need to work on coming up with real solutions.


A slow steady drip of dry information is the path to complacency.

For self organization to occur...for the forces of nature to be
unleashed... on this problem, the whole must be pushed far
from equilibrium. It is that large sudden push that generates
the debate and initiates the problem solving.

A self organizing system, having then been established, will
always settle on the optimum solution in the end. Just as
nature always finds a way, so will the solution to global warming.

Provided enough people demand a solution be found.
That 'demand' is the goal of an activist. Not any particular
number or final result. The solution will then find itself.
But an emotional response is what is needed to drive
the whole far enough from equilibrium to establish
a new level of problem solving.





Still swimming in the middle of the river and enjoying the float down the
stream.


Contentment to me is following a somewhat different path.
Instead of merely observing and being a creation of the
environment. I believe imagining the ideal future is our first
scientific task, not documenting the past and present.
As...only then...do we have two points, the present
and the future, that we can connect to determine the
best path we should follow.

We can then easily see an exciting and meaningful path
that creates a powerful personal inspiration to
keep chasing that dream. Each and every day.

It's the path to personal evolution, to becoming wrapped
every single day in the warm embrace of Mother Nature.

By chasing the future, instead of watching the present
become the past, we become part of nature and part
of the solution. Nothing can be more inspiring, or
provide more hope.



"Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all,

And sweetest in the gale is heard;
And sore must be the storm
That could abash the little bird
That kept so many warm.

I 've heard it in the chillest land,
And on the strangest sea;
Yet, never, in extremity,
It asked a crumb of me."



s


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