Re: Wiki article

No,leave it be.

It is not a private discussion and I have no interest in complainers.

The matter will rest until I feel it time to bring up again.

On Nov 2, 7:37 pm, don findlay <d...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
oriel36 wrote:
On Nov 2, 12:17 am, don findlay <d...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
oriel36 wrote:
On Nov 1, 2:07 pm, don findlay <d...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
oriel36 wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_tectonics#Driving_forces_of_plate_...

It is a little bewildering to see people actually try and discuss
geodynamics as it applies to the evolution of surface crust and
subsequently the motion of the fractured plates as though these things
must be spoken in a whisper in order not to offend those who believe
in thermal convection cells which require no reference to daily
rotation of to the Earth's shape.

I is not a matter of convincing people that the mid Atlantic ridge
which almost spans the entire length of the globe and the orientation
of the ridge almost dictates a rotational component but rather,the
details of why the planet has a spherical deviation due to the
rotation of the viscous composition remain out of bounds as long as
the thermal 'convection cells' remain.

To exempt the Earth's viscous interior from differential rotation is
almost shocking and this is not because I have found a means to link
planetary shape with crustal dynamics but more that it jettisons the
troublesome 'convection cell' mechanism which is plaguing productive
discussions as to the role rotational dynamics plays in evolutionary
geology.

http://www.oso.tamucc.edu/labs/lab4/satlantic.jpg

Freed from bothering with thermal convection as a mechanism,the
remarkable symmetry of crustal development off the entire length of
the ridge with the expected tapering off at the polar regions,at least
in terms of the underlying differential rotation mechanism,I can't see
why geologists are not more open about the role of rotation.This is
not a plea to people who are convinced of thermal convection but
rather a lovely addition to the outlines of plate tectonics and those
who subscribe to it by linking astronomy with geology.

You need to shout louder here, Gerald. Stuart at least surely has an
answer as to why those ridges in that link you cite are not offset by
the spreading ridges, and why all the convection since the ocean
floors opened is not offsetting them, and why when the plates change
direction the ridges don't, .. and why when the ridges move away from
the continents the continents don't shrink - but he's not telling
anybody. Either he's being a dog-in-a-manger, or he's treating it
like a secret. (Hell, .. you'd think he'd at least recommend a
*book*.)

I am an astronomer in a world full of observational astrologers (who
think a 'magnification exercise' represents astronomy),that is not a
putdown but rather an unfortunate fact borne of many years of calling
attention to topics based on daily rotational and orbital dynamics and
finding nobody who can adapt to more productive premises,working
principles and the rare but important conclusion.

Observation first. Establish the facts.

No,here is the way to go about things -

"Scientists still do not appear to understand sufficiently that all
earth sciences must contribute evidence toward unveiling the state of
our planet in earlier times, and that the truth of the matter can only
be reached by combing all this evidence. . . It is only by combing the
information furnished by all the earth sciences that we can hope to
determine 'truth' here, that is to say, to find the picture that sets
out all the known facts in the best arrangement and that therefore has
the highest degree of probability. Further, we have to be prepared
always for the possibility that each new discovery, no matter what
science furnishes it, may modify the conclusions we draw."  Wegener

I look at how geology is discussed here and the ebb and flow between
premises and conclusions based on surface correlations and it looks
like a planetary  autopsy is being performed and insofar as people
have yet to appreciate that the planet has incredible dynamics to it,
and echoing Wegener's approach ,it is the ability to move comfortably
between astronomy and geology or indeed any other relevant discipline
is what makes the pursuit worthwhile.

Very important. Birds and
bees are not the same as whales, although they all swim about in
'mediums'.

The Wiki article was
written by such a person and especially in his point of view of
comparing the geocentric view with that of Copernicus and from there
to the geological shift to plate tectonics -

'Geological paradigm shift'
"The acceptance of the theories of continental drift and sea floor
spreading (the two key elements of plate tectonics) may be compared to
the Copernican revolution in astronomy (see Nicolaus Copernicus).
Within a matter of only several years geophysics and geology in
particular were revolutionized.

Yes, but the reason for that was practical, not scientific. There was
an significant emergent academia, and an imperative to publish. With
everybody squabbling there was little chance of anything published
carrying more weight than the next. Which affects careers. So there
is Money. And who gives and who receives. And the powerful American
Economy after the war. And a need for the Advancement of Science in
the face of those damm Ruskies. American money got poured into
American Universities. Get a place in a prestigious American
University and your career was virtually assured, and Harry Hess
("Harry") with his Hollywood Looks at a time when America was reliving
its recent Pacific past was just the goer.http://tinyurl.com/5hwh2k
(Carey turned down his offer by the way.) Everybody sided with
Harry. And why wouldn't they when to go with the flow meant you got
published no questions asked? ("The gift that keeps on giving").

Stringing together buzzwords , snappy sentences  and soundbites is
just as irritating as couching poor geological and astronomical
reasoning in abstruse technical language and I have known nobody in
astronomy and few in geology who can actually discuss different
aspects of enjoyable topics as though the ideas themselves were
important.It must seem great to post a response designed to impress
the hell out of yourselves and others but that leaves little room for
adding details to geological evolution or the possible dynamics behind
events such as Earthquakes arising from crustal motion.

 > those guys stated very clearly that what they were saying was very
tentative, far removed from fact, and grounded heavily in
assumptions.http://users.indigo.net.au/don/nonsense/subass.html
which has been forgotten in the need for all the hangers-off- the-back-
of-the bandwagon to put their careers ahead of the science and the
common logic which makes us rational human beings. (You don't really
think they believe the crap the put around, do you? It's a game of
chess, or Chinese Chequers. You only have to read the way that Stuart
answers questions to see that.

There are more than a few people who wish to consider rotational
dynamics and its geological effects but do not know how to proceed or
find their way out of the particular dilemma created by organizing the
interior composition and viscosity around a thermal 'convection'
mechanism.There is no real problem ,it is just revisiting the approach
Wegener took by taking a wider view and in this case by looking at
daily rotation and the planet's shape thereby resolving the difficulty
of removing the narrow view based on thermal convection.A
complimentary addition to Wegener's multi-disciplined endeavor is also
found in the same approach of Pascal with the benefit of easing the
concerns of those who remain stuck with limited views such as the ad
hoc 'convection cell' mechanism -

"When we wish to correct with advantage and to show another that he
errs, we must notice from what side he views the matter, for on that
side it is usually true, and admit that truth to him, but reveal to
him the side on which it is false. He is satisfied with that, for he
sees that he was not mistaken and that he only failed to see all
sides. Now, no one is offended at not seeing everything; but one does
not like to be mistaken, and that perhaps arises from the fact that
man naturally cannot see everything, and that naturally he cannot err
in the side he looks at, since the perceptions of our senses are
always true. People are generally better persuaded by the reasons
which they have themselves discovered than by those which have come
into the mind of others." Pascal

I am a Christian and moving from local to global or higher levels is
just a tenet of my faith and I believe Pascal is drawing on the same
mode of expression in whatever endeavor is pursued.It may be felt as a
shift in responsibilities rather than the idea of superiority which is
why I always remind readers that if all they can manage is ee or
thermal convection then that is fine but the physical considerations
of both drag down plate tectonics.

The American Economy dominated science for reasons of money, not the
science.

There is logic in going with the flow, and it's nothing to do with
science. Going with the flow is the sterile child that science
begets, and it was illustrated EXACTLY by that example of the shift
from Continental drift (and the

...

read more »

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Dons blog
    ... of the science they say they support. ... Jo saying there's more to geology than plate tectonics, ... And that means asking questions, ... If that's not a RIGHT UPPEM ABSOLUTE BEAUTY to make them ...
    (sci.geo.geology)
  • Re: New Insights Into Convection In Planets And Stars
    ... the burning desire to defend a point.I do mind that plate tectonics is ... being diluted by an abysmal 'convection cell' mechanism but there is ... ..but in this case Earth science is blocking the way. ... In geology, surface correlations are facts. ...
    (sci.geo.geology)
  • Re: A General Introduction to the Expanding Earth
    ... > But instead spend every ounce of thought defending it. ... whether in science or religion. ... > And geology seems to me to be a great example of how ... by the handful who made it worth staying this long, Aidan, George, ...
    (sci.geo.geology)
  • Re: Nearly All Animal Phyla Present in the Cambrian
    ... If there was a flood, all our reasons for believing that the ... I'm not trying to use the interpretations of science to ... geology, taphonomy and palaeontology, as well as science in general. ... your sentence boiled down to the assertion that if we ...
    (talk.origins)
  • life lessons from science
    ... What is the one thing everyone should learn about science? ... as the only known explanation of "design". ... people look to scientists as having the "truth". ... Through geology, we understand our identity. ...
    (sci.med.cardiology)