Re: Dave Keeling: Global warming expert shares 50 years of research

From: Ian St. John (istjohn_at_noemail.ca)
Date: 08/22/04 

Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 17:04:32 -0400

Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
> August 22, 2004
>
> Ian St. John wrote:
>
>>> http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/heat.html#c1
>>>
>>> A trivial google search reveals thousands of others.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Heat Definition: The energy transferred from one body or system to
>> another as a result of a difference in temperature. The energy in
>> the body or system before or after transfer is sometimes erroneously
>> called heat and that usage should be avoided as it leads to
>> confusion.
>>
> That is one definition. Symbols and equations would be a better way of
> expressing yourself.

It is enough to elucidate your objection.

>
>> O.K. Now you have made your point. It is another 'dictionary
>> diversion'.
>>
> It's called mathematical precision and theoretical consistency.

Nuts to you. The original statement was about *HEAT ENERGY* not heat as in
your definition. Let me remind you since you are so dogmatically precise.
"Heat energy is ENERGY, and increases in energy in every system have
 effects, including increasing energy content in weather systems."

As is obvious the person was talking about heat energy as the form of
disordered energy, not as in the definition of a heat engine as you are
claiming.

>
>> You could have made this simple revision of the literature back at
>> the beginning, and don't tell me to read the references. Until you
>> make a point there is no incentive to verify it.
>>
> The point I made, was that you are not keeping abreast of modern
> scientific advances and developments.

 I think the point is a bit problematical since you are using a dictionary
quibble that does not relate to the issue raised by Thomas Palm.

> You are not using scientific
> methods in the problem solving process, that is, you are not
> participating in the production of scientific results and solutions.

Careful reading of the PROBLEM being discussed is necessary if you are not
to appear to be an idiot like this again.

> Learning and relearning should be a never ending process. I offered a
> solution to your particular problem in the form of links, which you
> declined to examine.

I decline to be trolled. As long as you are not clear in your nitpicking I
am not obligated to try to hunt down your meaning. Expecially when it does
not relate to the issue under discussion.

>
>> However, there is also heat energy and that was obviously the way
>> the term was being used. I am afraid that I have to convict you of
>> being deliberately obscure.
>>
> Yes, I admit it was another pathetic attempt to get you to read and do
> research, and solve practical problems, like the fundamental human
> problems of global warming, global pollution, species extinction and
> warfare, driven by hydrocarbon combustion, heat engines, and the
> resultant overpopulation and resource exhaustion. The problems are
> extremely challenging and difficult, but they are not insoluble, if
> you accept that challenge, and participate in their resolution.

It was pathetic, but hardly an attempt to educate. That would require
presenting your objection in a more rational and direct fashion related to
the issue at hand. As long as you maintain the confusion between the
engineering term of heat and the 'heat energy' under discussion, nobody is
going to follow your logic.

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