Re: Man's death attributed to SOCK-PUPPETS - OK LP - is thie the REAL JABBERS? :-)))
From: me (suaverider_at_frontiernet.net)
Date: 10/04/04
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Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 14:50:42 GMT
BEWARE! there are people on this newsgroup who are only here to slander and
lie about Jehovah's Witnesses
Jehovah's Witnesses: Witnessing Tips
By David A. Reed, Ex-Jehovah's Witness elder
Encounters between Christians and Jehovah's Witnesses typically revolve
around a discussion of deity. The reason for this is twofold. First, this is
the area where Watchtower theology deviates most dramatically from orthodox
Christianity. In contrast to the Trinitarian concept of one God in three
Persons-Father, Son, and Holy Spirit-the JWs have been taught to believe
that God the Father alone is "Jehovah," the only true God; that Jesus Christ
is Michael the archangel, the first angelic being created by God; and that
the Holy Spirit is neither God nor a person, but rather God's impersonal
"active force."
Second, the subject of deity is a frequent confrontational focus because
both Jehovah's Witnesses and Christians (at least those who like to witness
to JWs) feel confident and well-prepared to defend their stand and attack
the opposing viewpoint. Due to the profound theological differences, such
discussions often take the form of spiritual trench warfare-a long series of
arguments and counterarguments, getting nowhere and ending in mutual
frustration. But this need not be the case, especially if the Christian will
"become all things to all men" by taking a moment to put himself in the
Witness's shoes, so to speak (see 1 Corinthians 9:22).
In the JW's mind he himself is a worshiper of the true God of the Bible,
while you are a lost soul who has been misled by the devil into worshiping a
pagan three-headed deity. He is, no doubt, quite sincere in these beliefs
and feels both threatened and offended by the doctrine of the Trinity. To
give any serious consideration to your arguments in support of the Trinity
is simply unthinkable to the JW; he would be sinning against Jehovah God to
entertain such a thought. So, in order to make any headway with the Witness,
it is necessary to bridge the gap-to find common ground that will enable him
to rethink his theology. Rather than plunging into a defense of "the
doctrine of the Trinity," which can be mind-boggling even to a Christian,
take things one step at a time. A good first step would be to consider the
question, "Is Jesus Christ really an angel?" It will be frightening to the
Jehovah's Witness to open this cherished belief of his to critical
reexamination, but not nearly as frightening as to start off discussing
evidence that God is triune.
Since the Watchtower Society speaks of "Jesus Christ, whom we understand
from the Scriptures to be Michael the archangel" (The Watchtower, February
15, 1979, p. 31), put the JW on the spot and ask him to show you "the
Scriptures" that say Jesus is Michael. There are none.
The Watchtower Society New World Translation (NWT) mentions Michael five
times as: 1) "one of the foremost princes" (Dan. 10:13); 2) "the prince of
[Daniel's] people" (Dan. 10:21); 3) "the great prince who is standing in
behalf of the sons of [Daniel's] people" (Dan. 12:1); 4) "the archangel" who
"had a difference with the devil and was disputingabout Moses' body" but
"did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms" (Jude 9);
and 5) a participant in heavenly conflict when "Michael and his angels
battled with the dragon" (Rev. 12:7).
Ask the Jehovah's Witness which one of these verses says that Michael is
Jesus Christ. Help him to see that it is necessary to read Scripture plus a
complicated Watchtower argument to reach that conclusion. Rather than being
merely "one of the foremost princes," Jesus Christ is "Lord of lords and
King of kings" (Rev. 17:14, NWT) and is "far above every government and
authority and power and lordship and every name named, not only in this
system of things, but also in that to come" (Ephesians 1:21, NWT). And,
unlike "Michael who did not dare condemn the Devil with insulting words, but
said, 'The Lord rebuke you!'" (Jude 9, Today's English Version), Jesus
Christ displayed His authority over the devil when He freely commanded him,
"Go away, Satan!" (Matthew 4:10, NWT).
In arguing that Jesus is Michael the archangel, the Watchtower Society also
points to another verse that does not use the name Michael but says that
"the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an
archangel's voice and with God's trumpet . . ." (1 Thessalonians 4:16, NWT).
However, the expression "with an archangel's voice" simply means that the
archangel, like God's trumpet, will herald the coming of the Lord, not that
the Lord is an archangel. Point out to the JW that none of the verses he has
attempted to use as proof-texts even comes close to stating that Jesus
Christ is Michael the archangel. In fact, Scripture clearly teaches the
opposite: namely, that the Son of God is superior to the angels. The entire
first chapter of Hebrews is devoted to this theme.
Have the Witness read Hebrews chapter one aloud with you, and, as you do so,
interrupt to point out the sharp contrast between angels and the Son of God.
"For to what angel did God ever say, 'Thou are my Son . . .?' And again,
when he brings the first-born into the world, he says, 'Let all God's angels
worship him'" (vv. 5,6, Revised Standard Version). Remind the JW that angels
consistently refuse worship ("Be careful! Do not do that! . . .Worship God,"
Revelation 22:8,9, NWT), but the Father's command concerning the Son is,
"Let all God's angels worship him" (Hebrews 1:6). That is how the Watchtower's
own New World Translation read for some 20 years until, in 1970, the Society
changed it to read "do obeisance to him" instead of "worship him"-part of
their consistent campaign to eliminate from their Bible all references to
the deity of Christ.
True, you have not yet proved the "doctrine of the Trinity" in this
discussion. But you have laid a good foundation by giving the Jehovah's
Witness convincing evidence that Jesus Christ is not an angel (he is now
faced with the question of who Jesus really is), and you have shown that the
Watchtower Society has misled him, even resorting to altering Scripture to
do so. Now you are in a much better position to go on to present the gospel.
(3:16 continued)
This is from http://www.livingwaters.com/witnessingtool/browse.shtml thank
you
"Michael Gray" <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in message
news:5ua2m015o6php5vcd89v7tt4uci0vc6dq9@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 22:46:32 -0700, "L Perez" <LPerezDncr@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>BEWARE! there are people on this newsgroup who are only here to slander
>>and
>>lie about Jehovah's Witnesses.
>
> Bad. Very bad.
>
>>They do not offer any alternative organization...
>
> Inexcusable!
> That puts the lid on it.
> Anyone criticizing a faith, without offering an alternative delusion,
> should be irrationally dismissed out of hand, and ignored, then
> responded to, in that order.
>
>> as a matter of fact, some are admitted atheists (Matthew
>>12:30; John 8:44-47)
>
> Oh no!
> Irrational and evil Atheists!
> Quick! Get the crucifix and the garlic!
> (I had no idea that Matthew and John were atheists)
>
>>I have all of their posts filtered out because they can
>>not hold an intelligent conversation and often resort to lies. They claim
>>to
>>be quoting from Watch Tower literature but these are *NOT* exact quotes,
>>they change words and quote things out of context. I don't respond to
>>spurious fabrications. Hence if you see that I am not answering someone,
>>it
>>is because their previous attempts at deception have earned them a place
>>in
>>the 'block sender' file. They exist here only to destroy (1 Corinthians
>>10:6-11) They speak not as Christians
>
> Erm... that would be because they are atheists, as you so eloquently
> pointed out before. Duh.
>
>>(Ephesians 4:31-32) I do not need to
>>name them for by their fruits you will recognize them (Matthew 7:16-20)
>>One
>>has to wonder, why was a newsgroup set up to attack this *one*
>>organization?
>>Matthew 5:10-12
>>
>>"Sock Puppet # 21" <SockPuppetsGalore@Watchtowerlands.ng> wrote in message
>>news:_qqdnWQ52szKqsvcRVn-pQ@heartoftn.net...
>>
>
> Michael Gray,
> (Admitted Atheist)
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