Re: addressing someone without -san or similar

From: Michael Cash (REMOVEmikecashCAPS_at_sunfield.ne.jp)
Date: 06/21/04 

Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 22:50:35 +0900

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 12:23:10 +0000 (UTC), "Adam Atkinson"
<ghira@mistral.co.uk> brought down from the Mount tablets inscribed:

>"Michael Cash" <REMOVEmikecashCAPS@sunfield.ne.jp> wrote in message
>news:1lidd0dpev4s6odroigrhdubpqjm3j3j2k@4ax.com
>
>> >As for the conversations between
>> >Sai and Hikaru, I had guessed it might be because they were
>> >friends, but even the kids in the show who are friends
>> >always seem to call each other "-kun" or "-chan" so I'm not
>> >quite sure that's it,
>>
>> The former is <generalization> less formal than "-san"
>> </generalization> so in many/most cases it doesn't carry the same
>> degree of formality, so you might flip the coin over on the other side
>> and say that it carries a greater degree of intimacy, so it wouldn't
>> be out of place for friends to use. The latter is <generalization>
>> devoid of formality and carries a strong sense of intimacy
>> </generalization>. It is a "baby talk" sort of pronunciation of
>> "-san", if I understand it correctly.
>
>What about no suffix at all?

That is one of the options. If you haven't figured it out by now, you
no doubt will in the near future; all this interpersonal stuff can
give the Japanese learner conniption fits.

"What pronoun (if any) should I use for Person A in Situation X?"
"What pronoun (if any) should I use for myself in Situation Y?"
"What honorific (in any) should I use?"
"Which giving/receiving verb is appropriate for Situation Z?"
"Even if it's Person B doing it for Person C who isn't there?"

Et cetera e pluribus unum ipso facto hibiscus carborundum.

Some days it don't pay to get out of bed, ya know?

>Even close friends in the show
>don't seem to do this (adults or children).

One monkey don't stop no show, as the song says. The monkey also has
to be careful that don't no one show stop him. You're looking at a
very limited sample from a genre which isn't known for reflecting real
world actualities in the first place. What is they say? "Absence of
evidence is not evidence of absence". Just because you don't see it in
this one show doesn't mean you can or should tend toward a supposition
that it likely doesn't occur at all.
>
>> If you like it and it helps you with your studies, more power to you.
>> Charles Eicher will be along shortly to piss on your parade. He's
>> actually a very nice guy, but manga puts a bug up his *** like you
>> wouldn't believe.
>
>I've noticed this. I considered putting a pre-emptive apology
>to him in my initial post.

Screw that. Nothing to apologize for.
>
>I can't _read_ anything more complicated than the "Minna No Nihongo
>I" reading book, and it doesn't take much of "Mr Tanaka went
>to Kyoto. He likes coffee. It rained yesterday" to drive you mad.

I did tons of reading on four panel comics. I've never cared for that
multi-page bull***. But to each his own. Whatever works for you.
>
>I ought to have a look at some Go or Shogi stuff to see if I
>can understand anything, but it seems pretty obvious that I won't.

But if you intend to continue your Japanese studies and happen to come
across some material that you think you *may* possibly be able to work
your way through in the future, go ahead and grab it and put it on the
shelf. Anyway, if you're familiar with and/or interested in a
particular subject area, then books which limit themselves to that
area may be somewhat less daunting a task when you are trying to get
used to reading Japanese books. 90% of what you'll hear mentioned
around here are Genji Wazzit and that Heike thingy, but don't fall
victim to thinking that if you ain't reading Japanese fine literature
that you ain't reading Japanese. If you go for that stuff, good. If
you don't, then read what you *do* find appealing. My first Japanese
book that I read all the way through was called ƒZƒLƒZƒCƒCƒ“ƒR‚ÌŽ”‚¢•û
?E‘?‚₵•û (The Raising and Breeding Of Parakeets). 

--
Michael Cash
"I am sorry, Mr. Cash, but we are unable to accept your rap *** in lieu of
a high school transcript."
				Dr. Howard Sprague
				Dean of Admissions
				Mount Pilot College
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