Re: When do you start to stop learning?

From: Cindy (cindyduels_at_att.net)
Date: 08/15/04 

Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 18:08:49 GMT

Kevin Wayne Williams wrote:

> Cindy wrote:
>
>> Travers Naran wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I've known people who've been learning & using English for 20 years
>>> or more and still aren't fluent.
>>
>>
>>
>> Are you talking about me?
>
>
> Probably in a general sense he is.

I was joking? Wasn't it obvious?

> Specifically, I doubt it. Your
> English seems pretty typical for someone that has learned English as a
> second language during adulthood: you are usually able to get your
> points across, you grasp some idioms well and miss others completely,
> and you use a simplified grammar when writing. You frequently make small
> grammatical errors. You have some Japanese specific phrasing, and you
> struggle with "a", "an", and "the." You occasionally use spoken forms in
> writing, and probably use written forms in speaking. Nearly every Asian
> I encounter that needs English in their daily life reaches somewhere
> around your level of fluency and stays there. To get past it requires an
> intense level of study that most people find not to be worthwhile.

Gee, thanks for the evaluation and some speculation. Now I have to work
harder, don't I?

One interesting thing is that nobody has really taught me the articles
(an, a, the) effectively. I have asked many native English speakers to
teach me, you know.

> If I achieve your level of English fluency in Japanese, I will be proud
> of myself.

However, some people listen to me displaying an impression of "What
kinda language are you speaking?" Those people are usually uneducated
and are in a particular ethnic group, which I don't want to mention
here. Rather than understanding my message, they seem to tune me out.
To get their attention, I may have to use their accredited language.

>> It's OK to be fluent of course. But it's a big turn off when those
>> fluent people start talking about manga and sex and so on. You know
>> what I mean?
>>
>> Additionally, I notice that you will be mistaken fluent if the topic
>> you are discussing is a regular and repeated one because you are used
>> to it and have practiced many times enough. Therefore, if you let me
>> talk about such as the Beatles, Paul McCartney, Mozart, WWII,
>> Hiroshima, Nagasaki (by the way, happy war-end day!), and so on. I
>> may sound fluent. If I am forced to talk about physics and such, I am
>> doomed in both languages.
>
>
> Happens to everyone. Job-related words and words that show up in the
> kind of fiction you prefer become comfortable, and you tend to use them
> correctly. Once you get out of that area, speech quickly becomes
> uncomfortable and stressful.

FYI, I tell you about the most non native Japanese speakers I met in
person. They were usually fluent in the beginning such as greetings and
self-introduction. Yep, all me-me-me-all-about-me topics are discussed
amazingly fluent. Then, OK, if you are so fluent, let's work in
Japanese. They may have understood my instruction (means their
listening comprehension was good), but their instruction to me was too
far away from how the Japanese speakers usually do. I couldn't
understand them at all. You must be aware that there is a certain way to
say things when you have to speak Japanese at work. Sometimes, you have
to say exactly the same as everyone does although many English speakers
prefer being different.

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